Christina from Cookie3, welcome to the Pod by Pod. Sorry, start over. Christina, welcome to the Block by Block podcast. How are you? Thank you for having me Peter, happy to be here. Yeah. Let's begin with your origin story. I find that that's been pretty helpful for to see where people are coming from as they enter marketing into Web3. Tell us about your origin story. Of course. I actually, finished uni in management and I did some marketing there. So I had some educational background when it comes to marketing. And then I went and I worked for a couple of years in actually fashion PR and marketing. So I worked in London for some of the like fashion houses and the British fashion council. And then When the pandemic started, I was already starting getting interested in crypto and the digital economy. And I decided I'm going to go back to Poland, where I'm originally from, and go back to uni to study digital sociology. And I did that for two years. I wrote my thesis in blockchain, actually in the discourse on decentralization and the role of DAOs. And then from that, decided I already have the marketing and PR background. So I'm going to like combine it with my new fashion, which is Web3. And this is how I ended up in Web3 marketing, starting from Web3 PR agencies. So I worked in a PR agency called EAK Digital. Then I went to an agency called Maneuver. Then I went back to EAK Digital. And then I became the CMO of Cookie3. That's amazing. Tell us about what learnings did you bring with you from working in marketing and fashion? Like what are some elements from fashion that you can port over to Web3 that makes sense and has worked for you? I think, you know, it's a very specific type of customer you have in web three and in luxury fashion. you know, cause both things like they're not a commodity, so it's not commodity marketing. It's not like you're marketing, I know juice or milk or I don't know, even, even, even let's say cars, cause most of people need cars. It's sort of like a luxury product. So first thing, how to market something that people essentially like don't need, but they want it. So this is something that I brought. Another thing that stayed with me as you know, fashion marketing is sort of like an established industry because fashion has been around for like a long time. And something that I feel I'm bringing in that not many work through marketers do is using data for marketing. So looking at your conversion, understanding what works and what doesn't rather than just, you know, trying to guess and puzzle the pieces. It's like really understanding your target audience, building up a strategy. and following it rather than, you know, just doing it on the go. Let's talk about that. I think it's a really unique background and I see so many corollaries and really important lessons from fashion, especially the phrase that you just used. Marketing something that people don't need but want. So tell us a little bit about more. Tell us more about that and how do you market something that people don't necessarily need but And some don't even really want sometimes, yeah, tell us more about that. Okay, so it's a bit different in fashion and work three, but it also can be the same. So first of all, it's about the feeling of sort of like, first of all, it can be luxury, can be a feeling of status, it can be a thrill of having something. So I think like the great analogy between like fashion and crypto would be like the Hermes bags, you know, these bags cost like hundreds of thousands people buy them as an investment. And it's a thrill that the bag goes up in value or it doesn't similar with crypto. And it's also like owning an expensive NFT. Like it's you like I own a doodle and my my doodle is me and I totally understand like, you know, the feeling of owning this and it's a similar feeling of owning like a designer piece of clothing. It's a feeling of status. It's a feeling of luxury. It's a feeling of being able to access something that you choose to access, not something that you need. With crypto, the economic layer comes onto it as well. So it's a thrill of investing. It's a thrill of finding the new project. Also, feel fashion marketing and crypto marketing can be similar when it comes to very new designers. You have a lot of people who are searching for quirky new designers, invest them and get their items early on as they build up their career. And similar with new projects and crypto people try to find the next jam. That's really cool. Yeah, as you shared your background on fashion, it made me think immediately of NFTs, how it becomes part of your identity and the financial layer on top of NFTs, you know, really make a difference. You feel so much more special when the price is up. When price is down, you feel like it's a commodity, like it's a consumer packaged good, like milk and juice, like you said. How do you take advantage of that part? the identity piece or not advantage, but how do you use that piece of knowledge to become a better marketer in the Web3 space? Well, for me, it's I never undervalue the role of community. I know it's something that is being said over and over again. And like, it feels like everyone's repeating it. And I feel like I phrase, know, everyone's just like throwing around. But this identity to have a sense of identity, you need a sense of belonging, you need this community. And if you look at really strong projects, they all have very, very good communities. They have their sayings like, example, Monad has the G Monad saying at Kukidao, we're having like the Jimuki saying or like LFC Cook. So it's like, creates sort of like an inside joke and inside thing that you understand that gives you the feeling of the community and something in Web3 because Web3 is so based around, you know, decentralization. So making sure that your community is heard and it's not necessarily through like on-chain snapshots, but it's there in your Discord server, for example. For CookieDao, we have a section where people can give their ideas and they can post them and like someone will respond. And if it's a good idea, we're saying when it's going to be implemented or we're really open to people saying we can implement this and this for you and like... We would like to be, let's say rewarded and cookie or be paid for this work. So we're happy to hire from the community. always like post job adverts first in the community and people have the feeling that they're building with us. Like no suggestion goes unnoticed. Very often suggestions are really good in the community as to what can be improved, what can be done. They're like, could we maybe do a set of tutorials? Of course. And we go and do tutorials. So in creating this identity. You cannot treat your community, you know, as just customers. You have to treat them as someone who's building the project with you. And that's where the sense of identity is coming in. Now creating those cultural pillars of sayings or calling the community like a specific name like the Link Army for example, that's also really, you kind of take that for granted a lot of the times, at least I do, until you try to build a community, then you realize how hard it is to come up with these sayings that are. you know, ubiquitous in a community or a name for a community. These are kind of things that almost feel like they're organic, they have to come up from somewhere. How do you do that and make it work where it doesn't feel, it feels genuine and authentic and not fake? think it needs to first of all come from the community and it needs to be justified. Like you can't, you know, come in and impose sayings on your community. I always like to do like real world analogies. So for me, like the largest like community in the real world is the Taylor Swift community. Like Swifties like with the concert that was happening just now, like I feel like many people could actually like... experience this community. this is like a great example. So first you have a, know, you have a little group or a little community and as it grows, the community starts figuring out these names, these actions. So it's coming back to what I said, building with them, accepting their suggestions. And then someone in the community will say like, Jimooki and then like people will start using it. If that's not happening, you can be a founder, you can be a marketer, you can be a moderator. And you can start using it. Just don't overuse it. Like start by throwing it like, I don't know, once or twice a week. And then as people start to like use it and talk about it, like this way, like the community will start using these sayings. But the best thing is when they come organically from community members, because they're so excited about the project, they spend time in your discord. They spend time researching you. And they start telling things or start talking between one another in discord. This is something. It seems little, but for me, it actually is such a big breakthrough in a project. As many projects, you see their Discord servers and in the Discord server, it will be just like a question and moderator answer, and then it will be silenced there. And when you start seeing community members talking between one another, you sort of feel like, yeah, this cult is emerging and you're there and you're in a good place. The best way for these sayings and cult culture is, you know, to come organically just by you actively building an engaged community. I like that you brought up the Taylor Swift example. Are you a Swiftie? I am, I am a huge Swifty. My wife is too and I actually traveled the world with her to follow Taylor around. She saw her in London. We went to Vienna, but that show was canceled because of the terrorist attack. Went to Australia, to Sydney. Where else did we go? She saw her in Vegas. She's a crazy Swifty. Were you able to go to the Eras tour this year? only went to one Eras through concert, then I really wanted to go. Then she was a thing in Australia and I was like, I'm gonna fly out, but it's like, no, like no time. But I went to the one in Warsaw and I absolutely loved it. Like one of the best days of 2024 for me. That is so cool. Yeah, I have tons of pictures of my wife just sharing. That's the other thing, the cultural kind of anchor in the community is friendship bracelets. Like that just came out of, I don't even know the origin story there. I think it's from one of our songs, but my wife would come with a bag full of friendship bracelets and just become part of the community. And it's so special within the take on the community, right? to create something like that that's not fake. Sayings wise on the friendship bracelet, you will have like, you know, the first letters of songs and many SWIFTists will be able to tell like, what song it is just by the first letters. This is like similar to like having sayings in your community. And yeah, for me, you know, it's a great community building example in the real life. And when you're thinking about building community, it's a good way to like circle back to it. Like, yes, it's not crypto. but you'll be able to learn. Like you don't have to necessarily learn how to do something in Web3 only. Look at what's happening in Web2 in a real world and then adapt it to Web3 because Web3 is still new. Like so many things haven't been done yet. Absolutely. Let's switch topics to Cookie 3. So you're the CMO of Cookie 3. And for those not familiar with Cookie 3 and its features, can you tell us a little bit about it? Yeah, of course. hang on a second, because I'm gonna let out my dog, because I think my husband just came home and like he's super nervous, alright? Sounds good. you Alright, apologies, because he was just being super loud, I think it could have affected the audio. Alright, so the question was, what is cookie three, right? Yeah, all right. So cookie three is the B2B SaaS platform for analytics and basically everything to do with web through marketing. So one of the things that distinguishes us from, let's say, Google Analytics or any web to service is that we're able to on chain actions in addition to off chain actions. So in Google Analytics, for example, like you'll be able to see where your traffic comes from, who's clicking on what, what links are coming on. You can see if they have the wallet extension, but once they connect their wallet on chain, you can track that what's happening from that point onward. And obviously for well, three businesses, that's like one of the most important thing because you want to know, for example, how much are they trading or did they mint your NFT? Did they do anything on chain or did they just connect the wallet and then went away and never, never use your site again or. you know, just claim their airdrop, but actually aren't not holding it or sold it instantly or not using your, your product. So we try the whole journey, which is one of our really strong selling points and what we do. then recently you said you've been using it yourself. We also, open another part of cookie three analytics, which is called KOL intelligence. So we look at data on the entire crypto Twitter. And first of all, we do KOL scoring. So it's not a mystery that many work through KOLs are just shillers or have bot followings or aren't posting things that are actually converting and have good engagement. So we implemented scoring that is able to tell you how good actually a KOL is in terms of real engagement. We... have something that we call smart followers. So we have a list of followers and crypto Twitter accounts that we know are good. We know that they are like respectful. We know these are real people. know they matter in the Web3 space and on crypto Twitter, they don't have to be huge, but they just might have to have like a good engagement and some sort of following. So we call them smart followers. So a smart follower score. It's also something that is a good indicator of how good this KOL is. Because if you have a KOL that's got like 100K followers and let's say only three smart followers, that means that this KOL might be either followed by like, botted accounts, inactive accounts, or people who are just like, air-dump hunters, but aren't actually like, respected web-through users. And then we've got a similar metric called Mindshare. So you can search on any projects on KOL intelligence and you can sort of see like what Mindshare this project have, what Mindshare do topics have. So Mindshare is we take the whole of the crypto Twitter conversations that are happening and then we calculate how many of these conversations are happening around a certain topic, a certain KOL or a certain project. Let's talk about mind share really quick. It's such an important part of crypto and it's such so interrelated with KOLs. So KOLs for the audience, it's key opinion leader or influencer. It's essentially influencer marketing if you think about the Web2 space. It just has a, in Web3, just has a very disproportionate impact on what people do with their time and money. And so there are these KOLs that are either on crypto Twitter or on YouTube and they talk about specific projects and then it creates a lot of mindshare and then eventually demand. Do you think mindshare equals price in crypto? Is that an assumption that's safe to make? So I can talk on the example of AI agents. I haven't done enough research in KOL Analytics for not AI agent projects, but because we as Cookie 3 are also the core contributors to the Cookie DAO, and we're building the Cookie Fun Platform, which is basically more retail analytics of AI agents. And we employ the same mind-share mechanism we have in KOL Intelligence there. And very often what we see that price trend follows the mindshare trend. So we see mindshare going up and then we'll see the price going up. We'll see the mindshare drop and then like a couple of hours later, we'll see a price drop. In the newest iteration of cookie fund that we released last week, you can see there is like a graph that we plotted, which is the price versus mindshare graph, know, we have like the 50 50 split there and you can see that most projects and most tokens are scattered like really close to the line, which indicates a correlation. The one that is like a big, big difference that is like completely out is AAXBT. But I think it's also because they've got like such a huge mindshare right now and they're the leader in this space that you know, the mindshare beats the price because Everyone's just talking about them, but for the rest, like it's all on the, on the, on the line. the correlation is actually really big, which is, which is why my shirt is important. Yeah. The one thing if, if, if I was to give a tip to a or a founder, the one thing that I'd say you do, if you don't have any time is just go on crypto Twitter. spend at least half an hour browsing and post something every day. Literally post what's in your mind. You see something, you think it, you post it and this is going to grow your project. That is really cool. That's really good advice for founders and really anyone in a project to talk about something that you guys are doing, like build in public, build in real time and do it so that others are involved. That makes such a big difference in terms of these bots, AI bots that are AI agents that will then take that data and then incorporate it into their LLMs. And then it becomes part of the conversation. I think that's really what it boils down to is you want to become part of the conversation. Again, going back to the Web2 space, you always want to be in the set of kind of consideration, right? When you think of a funnel, you want to be talked about. Yeah, obviously, mind sure, as you know, top of the funnel, you need to have it and then you need to implement stuff lower down the funnel because just having mind sure like it's a good step, but then you want people converting into your website. You want people connecting their wallets. You want them to, I know, mentor NFTs, trade in your platform, buy your token or whatever. So you need to have incentives that were down the funnel. But with a big mind sure you have a big inflow. and at the beginning of the funnel and then like, you know, the flow through the funnel is also more and more something that we did a cookie three that works really well. Like we wrote a guide for the entire team and said, whoever wants to be active on crypto Twitter, we hundred percent support you. Like here is a guide of how to do this, what to say, what to not say. If you've got any questions like where to help, we incentivize the team. So whenever we have like for projects that we're working it with, if we have like And let's say like pre-sale allocation for the team or some extra NFTs for the team, like the people who are active on Crypto Twitter, like they get rewarded for their support. So that always goes to them. We also give, you you can give on Twitter, you can give affiliation. So everyone who said like, will be active on Crypto Twitter. I want to take part in this initiative gets the affiliation on Twitter that they're from Cookie3. which also like incentivizes them and our mind chair and our visibility has really grew since like a lot of our team members started being active. And it also shows like how different the team is. And it shows like the soul of people that are building the project, which I feel in web three is especially important because like people buy people, like not products, like they, buy the founders, they buy the vision, they buy the team. And if, if the public, if you know, you're your community is feeling that they know you and they know who's building the project. They trust you and this is why they also stay with the project. Let's switch back to KOLs really quick because it's becoming a really important pillar in a lot of marketing in Web3. And I'm seeing more and more projects trying to learn about working with KOLs, selecting KOLs, trying to decide what outcome metrics or success metrics there are from working with KOLs. Can you share maybe your thoughts on that and maybe bring it back to also some of the the KOL intelligence features that Cookie 3 has and how that could help projects learn which KOLs to work with, how to do the outreach to these KOLs, and then how to actually work with them and what makes sense in terms of success. Alright, so I can take you through sort of my process of working with KOLs. So for example, if I'm working with a KOL manager or a KOL agency and they have a number of KOLs that they work with, I will very often ask them to send me a list or a sample list, because not all of them want to share the whole list, so then I ask for a sample list of KOLs they work with. first thing I do is I upload it to KOL Intelligence. And then immediately I get all the scores, the engagement score, the small follower score. Then I go into sort of searching for keywords. And right now we're looking for more KOLs that are working with AI agents. So I search for AI agents keywords because KOLs are not recognized in AI agent space for this particular project, which is cookie dough. There will be irrelevant because cookie dough is all about AI agents right now. So then I'm able to filter out the entire feed of these KOL, see how many posts on the topic they did and look at these posts. So I'm able to like have the entire feed of just these KOLs posts and I'm able to like read through them and see whether this is something that, you know, I see would be beneficial for, for my project if these people talked about it. Then another thing that I will do is for every list, can search your project and search a list. And in KOL Intelligence, you can see a matrix of KOLs. And there are four quadrants, which you have emerging. You have stars quadrant. You have super OGs KOLs. You have hidden gems. And then you have irrelevant KOLs as well. So I see how the KOLs from the list are scattered there. And if the list of koLs like is either like really good strong koLs, that's great. I like to have like a good ratio of like raising stars. So micro koLs with their own bubbles, then hidden gems, which is koLs are really strong, have really strong engagement, but aren't huge. And then a couple of these like really big koLs. The reason why I don't want to have like a lot huge koLs is because Their audience is like so big, like they don't always follow like whatever they do. It's more like, you know, being in a newspaper or something like being featured by this great KOL. It helps your reputation, but it's not like someone will immediately on board on your project because they're talking about you because, you know, it's just, they're just too big to have like a really close circle. That's why these hidden gems emerging are super important. And then a couple of these really, really big ones is a good mix. Then something else that I would do in KOL intelligence, I would then go into each individual KOL and there I can see more metrics on them so I can see their score. We've got like emerging deity level, we've got like you know top KOL. So with that I would look at their smart followers. In the individual KOL profile you can also see the trend so I can see whether their engagement is raising or whether their engagement is falling. their engagement is falling, probably, well, I will look for a cause, but probably not want to work with them because I don't want to work with someone if people are unfollowing or whose weather algorithm is like showing less and less of their post. And then I will have like their top tweets in their profile as well, which will be super helpful for me to understand. what their audience is really interested in because top tweets are based on the number of bookmarks, likes, comments and engagement under the post. So if I see like the the top posts are not really relevant to the narrative that I'm trying to push. let's say I've got like a more dev related product and I'm trying to attract devs and all of their top posts are about airdrops, then that gives me an indication that their audience is more airdrop hunters and airdrop facing and more retail rather than developer audience. So it might be an indication for me this KOL like it may be really good, but it's just not the synergy with the project that I'm working for that I'm looking at. So yeah, that would be, that would be my process. So that's going through the process that you follow, I think, will be really helpful for the audience. And that's been helpful for me. I'm a user of Cookie 3, a customer, and I love KOL intelligence. One question I have, and I think this might be relevant to some projects that are both B2B as well as B2C. There are some projects, let's say, in the privacy space that primarily market to developers as well as to other businesses. But the role of KOLs is also really important for their token. And so in that kind of situation, they have to market to two different audiences. You've got the B2B space of working with other projects so that they want to be integrated into their privacy features, may want to be integrated into the workflow of their customer. but then there's also the token as a product and the primary audience for that are primarily crypto people. How do you work with a project like that and how do you find KOLs that talk about privacy because they're interested in the token but then the project is primarily or is also interested in working with B2B customers that... You know, maybe some of these might be governments. Some of it might be local governments or big governments or municipalities that are interested in privacy. So how do you work with a customer like that? And how could they use cookie three to help them be successful? All right. So first thing, and I'm going to be really honest here. Like if you cannot find the link between your product and your token, like that's the business problem. That's the product problem. That's not the marketing problem. Like it needs to be there. Like marketing is marketing what's there. That's something like if, if you're a marketer and you know, your founder or your business team or your product team is saying like, We need to push the token, it needs to go up and then you ask about the token utility and how it connects with the product that you have and then infrastructure that you're building. And they're saying like, it doesn't. Then tell them like, guys, we need to fix that. We need a better business plan. Because, know, let's say memes, but it's all about hype and it's all about, you know, marketing. But if you're saying you're like a privacy project, find a utility for your token, whether it's like, know, We've built the cookie fun and cookie fun. You lock the cookie token to access cookie fun. project that use the cookie data swarm API, the cookie token, like the payment that they do for using the API 50 % of it is used for the buyback of the token and burn of the token, which is the utility for the token. then, everyday users of, what three, they don't need to understand exactly the technology of like. you know, a data API, but they understand that because this data API is being used by builders who are building other AI agents and other technology, they are buying this API. Hence the cookie token is being in demand and then it's being burned, which has the immediate effect on the cookie token. So this is one example. So finding this link between the product and your token is essential. And then marketers role. is doing two things. It's first of all communicating what your product does in simple terms. So your target retail audience understands that it is needed by other builders, other developers, the other businesses will be using it. And then second thing that they understand where does the token come into play and why the success of the technology is having the immediate impact on the token. So then I'd say you sort of like do, you know, to marketing, you do marketing for the token and then you do marketing for the technology. When it comes to using KOLs, like I'd rather lean toward using them for the token and educating the KOLs about the role of the token in connection to their technology because these KOLs are going to convince this retail audience that this token is going to perform well because of the technological layer. There is this guy on Twitter, my god I feel so bad that I forgot what his name is, he recently did like a really great post about Cookie Fun, but he explains like projects that are quite technical. in a super simple way in a thread. And I love it. And it's like these KOLs. You don't need a KOL that will say, cookie will make, you know, 100x soon. Because this is shilling. Like, I feel like Web3 is mature enough that not many people follow shillers. You need a KOL that is going to say this project is going to succeed because this is a technological layer. I don't know. Like, they're the next Google. They're the next Facebook of Web3. Explain. Why? Explain the role of the token and make people interested in the project that they will go by the token and follow the project to look at project success. So this is why, like you said, for a privacy project, it's important to give these technological updates for everyone now and then say, for example, we have this many clients, we've done this technological update in easy way, and these many people are using our services now. We're partnering with this and this project because we're building our infrastructure further because that's the people who tapped into the project because they believe in it are not necessarily technical. Let's say they found out from a KOL and they believe that because of this technological infrastructure, this token is going to succeed. Then them seeing your project developing. is just solidifying them in the belief that this project is developing, this project is growing, and it's going to achieve what they believe it's going to achieve. I think that approach to marketing strategy and content and then working with KOLs to provide that education or to be one of the channels that provides education, I think is really, really helpful to view it that way. And that's certainly how projects can work with KOLs to find the ones that can help elucidate, simplify and communicate the strategy and the strategy of the project, the utility of the token. and do it in a way that everyday normal people can understand, I think is super valuable. And you're right, it's in contrast to shilling or just promoting the token and price. You wanna find the ones that can help educate. That is really, really helpful. Now, tell us how you can do, how can you find those within the Cookie 3 platform? Yes, so I would do it by either looking at other projects that are similar or projects that I know have good marketing and can be working with KOLs that I might be working with. So you can search your ticker or you can search their name in KOL Intelligence and you will immediately get the list of KOLs that are mentioning this project and talking about this project, which gives you a good indication that these are the KOLs that you want to work with. Another thing is finding KOLs that talk about the topic that interests you. So rather than searching for the project in KOL intelligence, you would search for the keywords that interest you. And then you would get a list of KOLs that are making posts using these keywords. You would get all the KOLs covering next to it. So you would get like a lot of data. And then you can do two things. You can either go and like start the yamming them on crypto twitter and asking if they want to work with you but if you have a little bit more time then it comes back to what I said like your team being active try to growth hack them on crypto twitter create a list of them for you on twitter go every day through a list and if they are posting something that you have something to comment or something to say go comment say it so you are on the radar So either they organically start talking about you, which is, you know, like the best case scenario. But then when you approach them, you're like not a stranger. They know who you are from the comments and they know because they like engaged with you under their posts. So it's always gives you like a stronger position to come and look for a collaboration rather than just cold DMing. That's really good advice. Now we've spent a lot of time on KOLs, influencers and marketing strategy that involves educating the audience through KOLs. Tell us about other features that Cookie 3 provides that maybe that you have found especially useful for marketers that maybe people don't know much about. Hmm. Let me think. think coming back to the analytics part that I'm finding really useful is, you know, is the old UTM tracking and then setting the conversion goals. So for example, I found it really useful when we did like a big PR campaign with Coinus, for example, or if I'm working with news outlets or websites or newsletters that can just implement the link for me. Cause for me, I'm getting instant data of like clicks and who's moving on chain and who's doing what. And I'm able to assess how actually valuable for me a given source is. So I might decide like, want to continue sponsoring this newsletter because it's bringing me a lot of valuable users or like this newsletter is actually like not bringing enough on chain users, which probably means for me like it's not cost effective, like I don't want to work with them anymore. Another interesting thing that I really like is being able to see on-chain data of your users. So for example, if I'm using cookie3analytics on my site, I can see who's connecting their wallet and then I can filter through the list of my wallets and see. what other tokens they're using, so what are they holding in their wallets, how much are they holding in their wallets, which the first thing, what are they holding, gives me a good indication of who they are, are they holding more NFTs, are they holding more altcoins, are they holding the safecoins, let's say Ethereum. And if I see like a lot of my users are holding, let's say a smaller project, it might be a good idea to go and ask this project for a collaboration or think about a partnership because it clearly means between our target audiences and customers, there is some sort of synergy. The second thing that I said, which is he can track like how much on-chain volume they're trading and exchanging and how much they're holding in their wallets. give me an indication of what sort of user I am dealing with because if I see like most of my users hold less than $100 in their wallet then I also know that they connected more of like a test wallet or like they're you know sort of like a trash wallet to my website which they just use for testing but if I see like I don't know a lot of my users hold over like 10,000 or 50,000 dollars then I know they're really invested in their project because they connected their real wallet that they're using every day for transactions and trading. And it gives me an indication that it's a way more quality user that's connecting. That's really great. mean, you're covering the whole area of attribution, which is a really tough topic in crypto because I've discovered, you know, a lot of people don't go to the project's websites. And so how do you, in what ways can you use the UTM to help you better understand your customer? Since attribution is just a really, really hard topic in crypto. Well, so same as in Web2, you can use these UTMs to see where they're coming from, sort of the demographics, same as you would do with Google Analytics or whatever, where Qt3 comes into play as the on-chain actions. So let's say they came to my swap platform from a newsletter link. I see that they came in. Then I can exactly understand the sort of audience that is, for example, coming through this newsletter. So then if... I see, you know, I don't know, whatever in their wallet that they're like Pudgy Penguin holders, then I might decide to do something more Pudgy Penguin related and then use it for next time, because I know this is going to be interesting to them. And this is way more likely to like bring more people to click through this link and actually connect their wallet and do the action that I want. So I feel that is really important. And then obviously, you know, you talked about attribution. I like to think that we're like an analytics tool for the entire funnel, is like KOL intelligence and UTMs are a KOL intelligence attribution. Then UTMs is conversion both off-chain and on-chain. Then you can see how many of these users are returning, how are they behaving, which is the retention. And then finally, like back to UTMs, can use UTMs to track referrals or incentivize people. and see how it's working. So it's really analyzing the whole funnel. We actually, it will probably be like in the next three to four months, but we actually want to put out a funnel view. So you will be able to see the funnel and you will be able which data at each stage of the funnel you want to see. So when you log into the app, you will be able to see exactly like the whole conversion from step. two steps, so at one glance you'll get like a full understanding of what is happening and make quicker decisions. I would love that view. I know for me personally, I come from the world of Web2 funnels and it just becomes my roadmap. But in Web3, for some projects, it's hard to even figure out exactly what stage of the funnel you're in because for some projects, there is actually no conversion. And so some projects might not have a product yet. And so they're still in the middle of building mode, yet they're trying to build awareness for the product or the future product that they're about to launch. And so when you're working with projects that are customers of Cookie 3 that might have a, they're not quite sure what their funnel looks like. How do you help them figure that out? I think, know, for the final, they need to have for the further stages of the final, they need to have either like a token or the product. But if they're just starting to build, like it's the mind sure it's just being there in the conversation. And most important tip that I have is like, don't advertise what you're building. Don't say like, we'll be building the next thing. Be present in the conversation and let other beliefs that you know what you're doing. because what you're contributing to the space on let's say crypto Twitter or other social media is valuable and you're becoming, you know, sort of like the opinion leader or even the KOL yourself in this space and this way drive mind sure to your project because people are going to be like, yeah, this guy like he's got such great remarks like I've been chatting on him to him on crypto Twitter. I've been following him. and this is the thing he's building. Like, yes, I am interested in it. So this way, so drive this mindshare app, but not only around your project, but also around the ideas and team and the topic so that you actually have a big mindshare within a given topic and the niche in which you're building in. Now, one final question before we end. I would love to hear your thoughts. You've been in this space for a while and you work in KOL intelligence, marketing analytics. I mean, you get to see how projects are really evolving within the Web3 space. What are some trends that you're seeing? And can you help us kind of see around the corner what we might expect in the next, I don't know, three to six to 12 months? Yeah, I mean, my feeling is, know, we will keep working on AI agents. I feel we will see AI agents coming to like help with marketing as well. You already see most AI agents right now are posting on Twitter and our reply guys, and you see more and more projects launching their own AI agents. We're actually testing like an internal agent just for our Slack that helps us with documentation. So our CPU, he's put it up today because he's been like bombarded with questions about like, this doesn't work. How do I use this? And then like this agent like literally replies to us and let us know how to do stuff. So I feel this is going to help. And also people will be able to tag agents on Twitter and ask questions about the project and it will instantly reply. It will engage with interesting tweets that are relevant to your project. also doing the... labor part I just spoke about is so important in building mind share. I feel like with us, so Cookie 3 and also with Cookie Fun and also with Kaito and the great work like Emily from Hype has been doing, there is way more emphasis put on the role of data in Web3. I feel like together with agents like the data and data driven. Decisions narrative is really emerging. So I feel more and more projects either for, you know, their internal operations or even for, you know, external stuff that they're doing, they will be leaning more at data and we'll see way more, way more data companies and data driven decisions in web three in the coming year. Amazing. Christina from Cookie 3, thank you so much for spending time with us on the Block by Block podcast. Thank you for having me, Peter.