Okay, we're rolling. Alsie from Dune, welcome. Nice to meet you Peter. Thank you for having me on the podcast. You lead marketing at Dune and almost everyone I know within the crypto space has either heard of Dune or uses Dune actively every day. So I'd love for this podcast to be really instructive to help the listener and the viewer like better and more effectively use Dune. Before we talk about Dune as a project, would love to hear about your background. I understand you studied psychology. How have you found psychology as, how has that applied, I guess, during your journey in crypto? Has that been helpful? Yeah, for sure. So my background, as you said, so my university program was consumer behavior, which was part of the business side of the program and psychology. So I did both. And I definitely felt like psychology was very important in everything that I do nowadays and marketing approach, strategy and execution. I think just from when I was very young, I was very intrigued by watching advertisement and just even dissecting. what am I seeing and how they're trying to trick me into buying different products and the music they're using, the words they're saying. That aspect of advertising and marketing was just always interesting to me. So I thought studying psychology in university was the natural way to combine the two programs together to make marketing better and to make myself kind of a little more different within the marketing niche. And I started my marketing journey before Web3 and so I was at nonprofit organizations and also marketing traditional agency setting. And since 2019, I started my first kind of Web3 project at the time. And that was the time when I really kind of got into the space when I didn't really know anything. It was a personal favor to my friend who was running the marketing agency at the time. And he started a project for NFT marketplace. And he's like, can you help me out with this new project that I started? And it's a blockchain project. I had absolutely no idea what it was. And when I looked at the brief, the deck, I really said, sorry, I can't really help you. I don't know anything about this. I don't know who I'm talking to, the audience. I can't really market this product. It's like, take your time, read something about this niche. You will like it. I'm sure you will like it. And after about a few weeks, he kept pushing me to, you know, just help me out for a little while. I finally agreed to it. And since then, I've been in the marketing space in Web3 for, I think now about five to six years. And it's definitely very different than what I've been used to before. And I think psychology, matter Web2 or Web3, it still is the core part of what I do day to day, kind of deciding the decision that I make, marketing strategies and execution. Let's talk about that for a second. You say it's different than what you've done. And I'm curious how you view consumer psychology within the crypto space. How is the crypto, I guess, the participant, contributor, buyer of tokens, how is that different from, I guess, buyer of services or products? yeah, I think even since 2019 till today, the pool of audience that we're trying to market to is also has seen a shift and change to also the different projects that have been. So the first project that I started at was kind of in transition between Web2 and fully Web3 because our marketplace was facing celebrity fans were trying to bring them on board into Web3. So there was a tie in between. It wasn't fully developer kind of marketing, wasn't fully technical, but there was an element to Web3 where you have to teach people what this is and help them understand why this is something new. But at the same time, we're talking to the traditional celebrity fans where you have a really big audience base and you're talking to them not only through Twitter, which is where most crypto marketing is happening at the moment, but through a lot of traditional marketing method, a lot of times through the celebrities own marketing channel as well. But since then, I've also migrated to more in-front side where I think our focus has been more developer based. And I've seen the side where Web3 marketing has a lot to it that's very technical. And we're talking to a pool of users who know the space already. And we're talking to users that basically understand the technology. And it's kind of talking within an echo chamber, almost. And it's different than Web2 marketing, where you send a message across, and it's almost like you're talking. the same language with everybody, but Web3 is already coded language. Yeah. I've heard that comment from a lot of founders where, know, on crypto Twitter, it's like speaking to an echo chamber and many have shared the desire to, how can we grow the pie? How can we get new people into the space? And that's been a challenge for a lot of folks that we don't need to get into here. But I think as we talk more about Dune, think Dune could be one of those, I think, platforms that could actually be a catalyst to invite new people into the space that are, you know, maybe primarily data driven and Dune definitely does that. Aussie, let's talk about Dune. Maybe if you could help describe for the audience that may have not heard of Dune or have used it, like what Dune is and who are the kind of the target customers for Dune. Yeah, for sure. So Dune is the data platform for everything on chain. We started in 2018 and Dune started and went viral as the dashboarding tool where we host the blockchain data, we decode them and we make them humanly readable, which means they're transformed into data sets that you can query using SQL language. This is the language that most data analysts, even at Web2 are familiar with. And they can use the Dune platform where we have the SQL language, the SQL editor, and you can just go in, put in whatever you want to search, for example, transaction volume for the past 10 days on OpenSea. And they will automatically generate the chart for you from the blockchain that you choose and things like that. So we started as this dashboarding tool. Everybody found that, you know, this is the tool that make blockchain data visualizable. And you are able to share that with with everybody on the internet. And that's when we started seeing on Twitter, on media, everybody started using dashboards to back up whatever story they were telling. And since then, Dune has grown a lot outside of just dashboarding and an analysis. So like I said, Dune hosts these data, which means we index the blockchain ourselves. We ingest the data and we've had about a hundred blockchains now indexed. So which means we're aiming to have all the blockchain data in one place instead of going to different blockchain explorer, different data tools, usually an analyst need five different tools to analyze different blockchains. And we want them to just need one tool eventually to do whatever they want. And do now also going into the developer niche, which means with the blockchain data that we have, not only you can do dashboards, you can also use those data. for applications that you're building, using it as an API, and also stream this data to other platforms. If you're using Snowflakes or doing some internal analysis that you don't want to use the Dune SQL or being on the Dune platform, you can just take the data elsewhere. Yeah. No, I mean, as a user of Dune, I love Dune. And one thing as a marketer that I'm always looking to do is to learn more about my users and learn more about my audience. We know marketers are one audience type that uses Dune. You mentioned also developers. Maybe tell us some use cases. let's start with, I guess, the audience segments. use Dune and kind of the kinds of use cases that they might have that they use Dune for. Yeah, so one thing that made Dune quite successful is because we kind of capture a lot of people from technical people to non-technical people. We have technical people that are familiar with data engineering, with data analysis. They build the actual queries and the dashboards for people to consume. And then we have the data consumers. So somebody like me on the marketing side, I can just go in and see whatever people are already built out there. And if I want to search Right now the most popular is pump fun and some meme coin or if there's an airdrop things going on people go in there check what's going on and So so everybody essentially in the space they can come to do and check the data that they're interested in this includes, you know researchers if you're writing an article journalist marketers for your own projects blockchain BD finance people and essentially everybody. And for marketers specifically, what we've seen is that a lot of people use these metrics to track their campaigns. you know, we've obviously seen people use Mindshare to track campaigns. That's definitely a great initiative in crypto right now, because, you know, for especially for token prices, we know that's quite important. But a lot of time we need data driven specific metrics to see what's performing, what's not. And what's good is you can upload off-chain data for whatever campaign you're running or whatever things you have internally to dune to match with any on-chain data that you want to track. So let's say you're running a campaign, a marketing campaign that you want to track how many wallets have been onboarded since then, how many transactions have run since the campaign started. You can do all sorts of analysis together and you can make it private too if you don't want that to be public information. And this can inform your next campaign to know what's performing best, what's not. So that's one way of measuring on-chain data using Dune. Another way that we've seen is people using it as a competitor analysis, since we have over 100 chains. So really, most of your competitors are probably on there. And a lot of their data are publicly available. And you can just go in there, put all of your competitors together in one dashboard, you can measure transaction volume across all of your competitors, measure revenues, fees, gas fees, everything on one dashboard. And again, you can make that private if you just want to use it internally. So that's the main use cases that we've seen from. Yeah. And those use cases make a lot of sense. I think of using a data platform like Dune, I'm thinking of how effective is my campaign? And then Dune can help me with on-chain data. I'm also thinking around acquisition. And acquisition could be new users to an application or new wallets that were created, as well as maybe tokens that are bought through these new wallets. I'm also thinking of retention. How well am I retaining these new holders, for example? Can you maybe tell us a little bit about that? How Dune can help with something like that? Yeah, exactly. So retention is one of the most common analysis on Dune as well. So we usually have a lot of, we call them Dune wizards, which means the core creators on Dune, the maxi analysts on Dune, and they create the analysis for whatever protocols they're most interested in. And one that I've seen the most is for Ronin, which was Axia Infinity. the protocol for Axie Infinity. And for gaming, they're really interested in how many users, how many gamers have been playing the game, and after they've earned a certain amount of money, how many people after time still playing. And retention has been a pretty important metrics for those gaming ecosystems. And retention has been used quite a lot in a lot of the analysis. And you can use Dune to do whatever kind of retention analysis, essentially. And it's in a lot of, know, I think outside of gaming or at least within crypto, you know, gamers or gaming applications and protocols are very interested in, you know, acquisition as well as retention. You know, are people still playing 30 days later? That's really important for gaming type applications. lot of folks in crypto don't think about retention. I don't think enough. But it's so important, especially in terms of like life cycle marketing. Mm-hmm. do you think that is? Like, why are most crypto people interested primarily in acquisition but not so much retention? I think we're in such a space where people kind of try to strive for the money and the monetary gain. And I hate to say that the VC culture and the fundraising and everything like that really focus on the vanity metrics. And that's why we've seen a lot of projects, especially starting up and they really tried to push for the first wave of users. that makes the number looks great and they get the first round of VC money, they get the TGE over and that it is over and nobody cares about it anymore. We've seen a lot of projects basically is dead after TGE and there's no more retention. There's there's campaign going on, the project is still running, but I feel like the sentiment is just no longer there. And definitely there, I would say not every player in the space. is here for the right sentiment and right reason. We just have to see for what that is and recognize the pattern before investing in certain projects and deciding to build. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, the difference between kind of short-term thinking and long-term thinking and, you know, life cycle marketing kind of forces you to think, you know, if I acquire a customer and people don't even use the word customer in crypto that much, but really that's kind of what we have to start thinking of them as customers or users or developers, but whatever, you know, are they active 30 days later, 60 days later, 90 days later. And that kind of thinking forces you into behaving differently that putting their needs first and making sure that your application or your chain meets their needs. And that's, think for us as a community and industry to grow, we need to start thinking that way. Another interesting take that I have on this topic is that we have a very fast turnover rate in this industry. For every project that a lot of people don't stay for very long-term. And that goes back to short-term thinking. It is what I can get for my term for now. And, you know, they really don't think about how this is going to go long-term and how these users are going to stay and retain. year over year because maybe after a year I'm no longer at this project, I'm working at another project. So I think that definitely plays into it as well. Yeah, I agree. I want to go back to something you said, Alzi, about data enhancement. Right now, Kaito and Mindshare is really important. And we know that there's a pretty tight relationship between token price and Mindshare. But the other side that we don't see is, if a project or an application has a lot of Mindshare, does that lead to To what extent does that lead to actual on-chain activity? How do you work with, you mentioned you can do data uploads, how, I guess, what does that look like from a marketer's perspective? And I want to answer the question, okay, such and such project has gained 1 % in mind share. What does that look like in terms of on-chain activity? How do I marry the two? collaboration to do with Kaido. And we're talking with Kaido team. I would be really interested to see if we can build a dashboard together to maybe have Kaido's data on mindshare gains versus the blockchains on-chain transaction volume changes and even their fees, gas fees and revenue changes. Also the token price change. It will be very interesting to do that kind of analysis. But personally, I cannot say for sure that there is a concrete tie or correlation within these before seeing that data myself. Yeah. And in our space, people can create new wallets. so being able to tie the wallet that they used prior to going on chain, don't know. Being able to tie one event to the next event, to on chain activity, to off chain, that becomes a very, very big challenge for marketers. And coming from the Web2 space, that type of analytics is like, I relied on that. I relied on clicks through my ads and then ads to a landing page, landing page to a cart. And then was there any from the specific customer, was there any customer service calls? Was there any returns? I could see at the most granular level, really at the customer level, what the life cycle looks like. And that's a huge challenge for marketers in web three. from Dune or the Dune platform helps us with the on-chain part of it. But combining it with off-chain activity, you know, as well as data from Mindshare, Kaido, and Cookie 3 and these others, I think would be so valuable to have that kind of data enhanced kind of picture of who is your customer and who is your user. I agree. think Dune currently we have that on-chain data, like you said, and I believe there are people out there building some sort of wallet address intelligence kind of application. so Dune is not building just for full clarity. Dune is not currently building any intelligence for these wallet tracking or individual intelligence information. But I do think this could be a great use case for any founders with these kind of ideas that want to combine off-chain data or if they have other intelligence data that want to combine with DUNS data. And, you know, there's always room for collaboration and making things better for everybody in this space. Yeah. On the Dune site, as well as many of the tweets that as I did my research on Dune, this phrase data into action comes up a lot. I'd love to hear your thoughts on data into action and maybe some examples that you could share that you're able to share on how data from Dune is able to marketers or developers or anyone that's using the Dune platform into some action. Yeah, so I think that goes back to who's using Dune's data, right? So a lot of times we, the biggest users are the VC fund, we've heard the most quotes from individual founders that they come to Dune to build their dashboard because their potential VC asked them, if you don't have a Dune dashboard, we're not going to invest in you. because they want transparency, they want to see the actual growth, the actual usage of their protocol. And that's definitely one of the biggest use case I would say for any startups out there, for any new protocols, if you want to show how much your ecosystem have grown, how much your community have grown, really try to make a Dune dashboard. It's free to start. You know, it doesn't really take much effort to have your data up there. It shows you are transparent with everybody. And the use case is that everybody would trust you for, because the data is verifiable. People can go into your query, see where the data is coming from and see your methodology on building this out. It's not just a number that you claim. We have a certain amount of number of users, which we've seen a lot, you know, a telegram message. This is how much we've raised. This is how much user we have. So I think a lot of VCs rely on Doon to verify the projects that they invest in. And VCs also use Dune to track their portfolios, how they're performing. Some of these dashboards are public. Some of them are not public. So one of the biggest user is Hill Dobby on Dune. And he's part of Dragonfly, which is a pretty big VC out there. And also 21 shares, 21 co. They build a lot of good dashboards on Dune. And they use that for their investment strategies, for a lot of internal decisions. And also for LIDL. For D5 companies, one inch, they have a pretty comprehensive data dashboard, basically a folder of literally every single part of their team. And they have a full data team to build those dashboards internally. And they use that for every aspect of their decision making. Also for blockchain teams, every blockchain we integrate, they have their overview dashboards and internal dashboards. They use that to determine what protocol is doing well, what's not, where in the ecosystem we should invest more in, what's not, and how we should allocate the funding and things like Got it. No, that's super interesting. How difficult would it be? So let's say you're a project that is on some chain that is supported by Dune and they want to create, they want to be more transparent with their audience or their community. How would they go about getting started? So I think first is to search if your dashboard is already on Dune. A lot of times you will be surprised. Maybe some of your community member already built something on Dune. I would say first search just terms your projects. And if somebody built it, that's great. If not, if you have a data team in your team, they can start building. Sign up for an account. It's free to start. Dune's free tier is pretty generous. I would say you can start building. pretty much everything from the free tier. The upgraded tier is mostly for more credits. If you need building more dashboards, more complex queries, that's when you need the upgraded tier. And then if you don't have a data analyst, if you basically just non-technical, you don't want to do anything with that, you only want to see the dashboards, the easiest way is to either connect with Dune team where we find somebody in the community that's familiar with the chain, either EVM, non-EVM. who's familiar with the architecture. Or you can do a contest. We can help you promote the contest to create some dashboards. that's the easiest ways. Yeah, so the project I'm thinking about is a, they're on an EVM compatible chain and they have also a game, I think two, maybe three games. And so, you know, if they connected with the Dune team and you guys brainstorm on what kind of dashboards would make sense because they're interested in players, they're interested in NFTs that are transacted as well as transactions. Do you go through this kind of, I guess, brainstorming with them on what, I guess, criteria as well as what variables need to be on the dashboard? Yes. So, we usually leave this up to our data creators and the team together. So they will together come up with the idea on the dashboard they want to create. And a lot of time, the project themselves have a pretty good idea of the specific metrics they want to see or their community wants to see. And with that, the data creator from Doonside will be able to gauge, okay, what data we already have the data. If, it's complicated to do, we have a thing called Spellbook. which is the data sets that's not easily, the basic simple raw data or decoded data that's already on Doon. And they will be able to compile the data sets together and put it together on Doon. That's in the future if other projects also wants to query that from you. It's for public good and everybody can access that in the future. so, You can also go through all the other projects, what they have done in terms of metrics and see, pick and choose what's beneficial to you. And one thing about Doon that's good is you can fork people's query, basically copy paste. And with fork queries, you can just change where the data sets is coming from. If this is for another chain, you just change the chain ID and change this to your own chain and things like That's huge. That could really spark the team's productivity so much quicker. That's great. Yeah. And now with AI, right? You can just write SQL queries in AI and Dune has native integrated AI prompts. So if you want to try something, I wouldn't say the AI replace human written SQL, but you can definitely start something simple with the Dune AI built in. So we've talked a lot about the data that Dune provides and the insights into action that Dune can help marketers as well as other users with. I'm curious to hear from you on what, despite all the great data that Dune provides, what are some things it doesn't provide? So I guess what, when, when I think as a marketer, I'm thinking of, I think of stories and I think of, you know, data tells one type of story in terms of growth and patterns, but what kinds of stories maybe Dune doesn't tell us yet? Like, how do I say this? I guess what is Dune... Dune's really great at one thing. At many things. But what doesn't Dune tell us right now? Yeah, so my answer to that is we think of Dune as a very neutral platform that we show you the data, but we don't tell you the story. You as a marketer is responsible for finding the story within the data. And the data creators, sometimes they will be the one come up with the story that they want to tell and telling that through the dashboard that they built. But Dune itself, I would say, We are hosting all the dashboards. We're hosting all the data. We're providing you with the tool. But we ourselves are non-biased. We're not giving you any ideas. We're not providing you with the stories that feeding you anything specifically. So maybe think of us like YouTube. There are creators uploading their own things. You can watch whatever you're interested in. You can search. You can get feeds that's recommended to you. But YouTube itself, there's no content from YouTube, right? So I think that's a pretty good analogy to what Dune is currently providing in terms of stories. That makes sense. As a marketer at Dune, what are some metrics that you are specifically focused on in terms of like growing Dune across like the Web3 space? Yeah, so we focus, I think there are a lot of discussions around metrics and we cannot get around outside of the regular metrics, know, views, engagement, page visits. So those are definitely high level metrics that we also track. But at we really focus on our community engagement, which is the core builders that we have, the core wizards and creators and the sentiment that they give us. So they're the one that made Dune what we are today. And we focus on what we build is that resonating with the users who are using Dune. What we put out, do we get response from them? If we ask a question, if we ask what feature do you want, do we get actual people replying with their genuine interest in what they want to see from the platform? So that's something that I really personally want to see. And I think a lot of the projects right now There are ways to boost engagement. You can put a quest out there, put comments, put likes. Metrics can look good either way, but does it look genuine? Is it actually helping you in terms of product development and building out your roadmap down the road? So that's something that I think is hard to quantitatively, but qualitatively, we take it very seriously. And that's you mentioned product development. And that's one of the things that I think is really unique about Dune is that it really grew. It was very product development focused and it there was just a useful, really great product and the entire community rallied around it and is using it. And it really grew from the product itself. And that's really unique. You don't see that a lot in a lot of crypto projects that are still in development and still have not launched something yet. Anyway, that's not a question, that's just a comment. I do want to go about that comment per se. think Dune, have a very interesting business model. I want to comment on that because our business model is very transparent. Our founders are quite transparent with every year if there is a shift in how we make money, our revenue model changes. So now Dune's business model is not heavily relying on the individual B2C creators. pricing model, which is what you see on the Doom platform where we charge the creators for upgrading their subscription. And we've changed that model since I think late last year. And now our revenue stream most heavily come from the integration side, which is from the blockchain foundations. So the goal was that, you know, from individual, there's only so much money that each individual has, and we can't really count on people spending heavily to get data and You know, the goal of the company is to make data accessible, to really make sure everybody has the ability to get these data and blockchain. On the other hand, there are the foundation with more money and the ability and the interest to make their data more accessible to their own community. So that's why the business model shifts. And with that, the B2C part becomes our distribution wheel. So we call this a content flywheel where You know, the dashboards, the, the mass users, the consumers, it's really our side where there are marketing. we develop our product for them. And even we're almost losing money because, know, hosting these data, running the queries, takes a lot of hardware costs, infrastructure costs, and we're almost losing money on that. But that's, we're almost counting them as marketing costs because these data are useful. People are using them. People are sharing them and. in turn, that drives our to-be sales, our to-be customers. So I think Dune's model is quite unique in this space. And we're considering ourselves a quite traditional SaaS business model. Yeah, I didn't know about that business model change and it makes a lot of sense. mean, these foundations have treasuries that they could deploy to help all the applications that are building on them. And so that makes a lot of sense. How has that change been received so far? So I think, like most of you, to end users, it doesn't make that big of a difference. Because again, the pricing, we put out analyst pricing, which didn't exist prior to November last year. Before, it was just free pricing, Teams plus Premium Enterprise. And that basically from free to the paid tier, it was a big jump. And now we give the very like $30 per month. analyst pricing that's for individuals. And really that opens up a lot of most requested feature from individual that we see being asked for. And since then, people are pretty happy with what they can get individually on the platform. And, you know, on our B2B side, we're actively reaching out to the blockchain partners and they're coming to us too, because everybody wants their data to be on Dune. So I think Publicly, this change hasn't made that big of a difference. It's really just how internally we structure ourselves and how we prioritize different things, different channels, just business going. Yeah. Dune recently acquired Chain Story and I'd love to hear about how that acquisition, I guess what led to that acquisition and how things are going so far. Yeah, so we didn't acquire ChainStory. We acquired SmallExcel, but we partnered with ChainStory. Yeah, so SmallExcel, they are a very small startup at the time, and we acquired them during DoonCon last year in November. And they're focusing on a very interesting technical stack, which I'm definitely not expert to explain everything that they do, but essentially they give us a opportunity to unlock a lot of downstream capability in terms of data engineering pipeline. So let's say right now, Dune, we can get ingested data and do a lot of things ourselves. But with this new acquisition, they give us a new tool where not only we can take data from RPC nodes provider, which is currently how we're doing, but we can use this new technology and not relying solely on RPC provider and make that process 100 times faster and cheaper, take data directly from when it was being executed parallely in a virtual environment, and also being able to give people more enriched data in this process. So there is a lot that's coming up soon. So we'll be announcing more products coming out, more enhanced products. features with this integration. We haven't really announced much with this acquisition, to be honest. So stay tuned. would say a lot of interesting things is coming up. And that really positioned Dune as the ultimate data platform for everybody using data out there. It sounds like, it sounds really exciting. It sounds like, you know, this, this new collaboration is going to create new products that are specifically for, I think would really benefit marketers. You know, as I, as I mentioned, my desire is to be able to understand my users and developers and customers end to end. On chain is one part of it, but there's stuff upstream from on chain and also downstream that I would love to understand. And but it sounds like doing is thinking along those lines already. Yes, yeah. So definitely I would say our founders are 10 steps ahead of our team and just thinking about the bigger picture and making sure that long-term wise, Dune is staying here and will be the biggest data provider for essentially all the projects. That's really cool. Dune recently launched a university program or announced a university program. Tell us about that and I guess what are your goals are with that? Yeah, so we actually just announced this morning. And this program started when we were at East Denver. So it's really recent. We were there. Our team were on the ground. And we had a lot of university students coming to us and saying, hey, our club, have a lot of students wanting to use Dune. We want to learn more about on-chain data. We want to explore your product more about what kind of supports can you give us? That really got us thinking, our goal is to make data accessible. what are better ways to do it than giving this tool to the next coming up talents to Web3 and making Dune as the first go-to platform for them since they first start in Web3. And this program essentially entails a very heavily discounted Dune product for them. basically, one university, only need one subscription for the entire team, so it's really cheap. personally, you barely need to pay anything if a blockchain club is paying for it. And we are sponsoring for small meetups or if you want to do some Dune workshops, meetup and educational things together, we're sponsoring that for university students. And also there are tons of materials that we provided for people to learn about Dune, to learn about SQL, Guides, and basically giving you the whole 101 to get started with on-chain data analysis. And finally, we're giving you a talent program for matchmaking from students with top protocols. Like I said, we can match the protocols with wizards at Dune Community. And with this program, we hope to have more and more students learning on-chain data. that can be new talents that we give out to top protocols that can build out dashboards and applications for. And I think that right there I think would be really helpful because you and I know that these protocols have, they have kind of competing priorities and developers that are building the protocol itself. And so finding developers to build these dashboards could become a challenge. so opening up the university program could, I think, be very helpful for many of these protocols and applications. Yeah. And it's a great outreach too. I've been part of some university programs where we partner with university clubs. I once worked for a layer one and we had, I think close to like 60 partnerships with university clubs across, you know, lots of universities across the world. And it's exciting to see kind of the up and coming people in these university clubs that are interested in blockchain and some of the talent that they bring. And again, that's another way to grow web three. is to bring in people that are not at Web3 right now, and a lot of them are in these university clubs. And even people currently in Web3, I would say a good majority of them are still students. We have a lot of young talents and I think that's where the new talents would come from and we should really tap into that. think every project is not already doing that. They should really consider allocating some of your resources to the university students and to more people outside of Web3 and try to convert people into the space. Yeah. Dune produces tons and tons of content, not just from the data, there's also use cases as well as how to use Dune. Tell us how the part content plays in terms of acquisition for Dune. And acquisition means new users of Dune. Right. our content, because we have so many different audiences, so that's why we also have so many different types of content. That's, would say, is one of the difficulties I'm running into at the moment, just because with the expanding product suite, expanding personas that we are facing, it comes to a point where the types of content is also expanding. And I'm speaking with so many different personas every day. with the different content that we're distributing. So it's definitely becoming harder and harder for my job. we don't have that big of a marketing team. If you don't know yet, I'm the only marketing person on Dune's team. And I'm mostly producing most of the content. We do take a lot of external content. So this is a shout out for anybody who is using Dune's product. If you want to collaborate on any content, if you have a guide, case study on how you use Dune. We're happy to collaborate with anybody out there. But for user generation for us, we use these content as a, especially the research type. We've noticed that people come to Dune, people recognize the Dune name. And a lot of times these research and value providing pieces are the most important pieces for us. And that's why two months ago we've onboarded a new data content creator and he's on his task is to use the data dashboard that we already have on the platform, the one that are created by the community, and him to combine all of those and put together a story. So this is where, like you said, we find the story together. But again, this is not doing platform doing, this is just the marketing doing. We combine, compile, and put together a story and use this as a distribution form. So for example, we put together a state of stable coin report recently and that way we got almost 15, 2000 downloads right away. And that's a new way for us to reach some of the institutional customers for our data streaming product that's coming up. So a lot of these reports, we can really tailor that to whoever, whatever kind of customers we try to reach. Let's say we want to reach DeFi customers. We can put together a DeFi report using Doos DeFi data and or a Twitter thread targeting NFTs or targeting polygon ecosystems specifically. So a lot of these insights content has been really successful for us. Yeah, I mean, you guys have access to a tremendous amount of data. And the challenge then becomes like, how do we make sense of all of this and create a story around it? Based on what you're seeing, I'm curious to see like where you're seeing the growth in terms of, I guess, layer ones that are seeing more transactions or applications. I guess, what trends are you seeing based on the data that Dune has? access to. Yeah, so I'm not the biggest data person. So from what I'm seeing, layer one, layer two are definitely both growing. I think there has been a debate recently on how layer two has been cannibalizing layer one's fees, revenues, and things like that. I think it's up to your individual taste based on how you look at data. And that's where I found with that debate, a lot of people whip up their own dashboards from all kinds of different sources. And that's where you can see, you can use the same data and tell a different story based on how you put different data together. You put three different charts together and you can tell a different story. So data is objective, but your point of view and your storytelling could be very subjective. that's why... We always say that, you know, Dune tried to be very neutral with what we say and what we present. And what we've seen right now is the blockchain ecosystem is still growing and the layer two numbers are not going down anytime soon. We see so many layer twos popping up and layer ones, unique layer ones, that's not EVM, that's not Solana. So unique architecture layer ones are popping up too. And all of these blockchains are trying to fight within the same user pool. I think after speaking to a lot of people and seeing the data, they're all fighting for the same developer pool, a same user pool too. So that's why I also think from a marketer perspective, if you are a new chain coming up, you should really consider how you can differentiate yourself from all the other chains and how you can really onboard people outside of current Web3 user base. Does the data point you to anything tangible in terms of how chains could differentiate themselves and be more attractive to developers? I think on-chain data has only so many things that you can differentiate from each other, right? There's chains that are competing on transactions per second. There is chains competing on gas fees. There are chains competing on number of users. I don't know how many revenue you give out to developers building on your change. So there's only so many things you can see. But again, a lot of times, That's not really the exact science that determines if that's how you're going to differentiate because a lot of times we see a blockchain that they just have a strong community, even though a lot of the other aspects may not be exactly very differentiated. They just have a strong community. yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's where kind of data enhancement makes sense, where if you have a strong community, there's a lot of engagement. And being able to overlay that data on top of transactions for that specific application or chain would be so helpful. And to see if there's a correlation. And I think that that's what I would be looking to. from Dune going forward, especially with this, you know, some of the new partnerships and initiatives that Dune has going on. like data enhancement is so important in being able to see kind of upstream and downstream from on-chain data. It would be very, very interesting, I think, to, I think a pretty large segment of users of Dune, but is also really hard to do. Like that's like really, really hard work. Tell us more about like some of the the derivatives that doing has and And and maybe like anything you'd like to share the with the the the viewers before we before we end Yeah, so I would like to say that Dune is at a very interesting space today where, like I mentioned a couple of times, we're growing outside of our early dashboarding phase. And I like to really emphasize that right now Dune is going full on on the data, overall data hub, not just dashboard. So really remember Dune for it. data versus Dune Analytics and Dune Dashboards. That's one thing if anybody wants to get a takeaway from this podcast, that's something I want you to remember. And another thing is annually we'll have DuneCon. And I'm not sure if Peter, you've heard about DuneCon in the past or anybody listening to this have been to DuneCon. But last year we had it in Bangkok at DevCon. And this year it will be somewhere announced very soon and I hope people will be very excited for DuneCon because last year I heard really, really great feedback about our event. So this event will be very data focused, but we'll have the best speakers in the space because we have all the blockchain partners, we have all the top projects. So you can really expect all the tier one speakers coming to our events and having all the top analysts and teams there together. Well, we're looking forward to hearing where DuneCon is going to be this year and the other initiatives that I'm sure will be announced then. So, Ozzy, thank you so much for taking the time to spend with us and congrats on all the growth and amazing things that you and the team are doing at Dune. Thank you so much, Peter, for having me. It was nice chatting with you this time.