Stacy Spikes, co-founder and CEO of MoviePass, and today we're focused on Mogul How you doing? doing great. Peter, how are you? Good, welcome to the show. So you have an interesting background that I don't think a lot of crypto people have and want to maybe begin there. You have a really a storied career in entertainment and now you have this blockchain part of what you're doing in this new venture. But maybe take us through kind of your journey in Hollywood. and entertainment and then we'll get into Mogul. Yeah, so started out in the music industry and in some weird way in a very short amount of time when I was early in the industry, I ended up at 21 years old being the product manager for Boyz II Men, Queen Latifah, Eddie Murphy, Spike Lee, and I was only 21 years old. What happened was I was in a band. Believe it or not, I was in a Rush cover band. And so I was in a Rush cover band and I me and my friends moved to L.A. and didn't make it anywhere with the band. But ah Universal had was was propping uh Motown back up. And so I got a job in the art department as a gopher. And all I did was go around and get album art signed off by the department heads. And that was my only job. one thing led to another. And this, this positioning in the marketing department opened up and I hadn't gone to college. I hadn't done anything. And I went in and they gave it to me and kind of like, okay, there's no one here. You can have it. And, so my first group was boys to men and then leap forward after Motown. got, yeah. Tumman, were they famous at the time or were they just starting out too? They had Motown Philly out and they hadn't broken, broken. were kind and what was weird about them was at the time you kind of had gangster rap on one side and you had grunge on the other, but it was really cool. had conferences like, or festivals like Lollapalooza and other things where everybody was on this, the same stage, but it was just this hard edge. And then suddenly you had this four part harmony do-wop group and they kind of didn't fit anywhere. oh And they were wholesome and they wear their bow ties and their little polo shirts. And the next thing know, Motown Philly takes off. And then I came in around the time when End of the Road happened. And so End of the Road, which everybody's, you know, danced at their high school prom or to that one. End of the Road was in Eddie Murphy's Boomerang movie. It was on the soundtrack. And so when they ended up breaking Elvis Presley's record for 52 weeks at number one. So we got 53 weeks. And I think Whitney Houston holds it for I Will Always Love You at I think 54 weeks. So that's when that had happened. And so when Eddie joined the label, He wanted Boyce to Men's Product Manager. And then when Queen Latifah joined the label, she wanted Boyce to Men's Product Manager. And so next thing you know, I'm 21 and I've got the hottest groups in the business at the time. And I was like, how did that happen? So then one thing led to another. And I then went to Sony, which I did the Bad Boys soundtrack. So it like made Will and Martin stars and it was you know, them stepping, they were both TV stars, but they weren't, um they weren't action movie stars. And so we did Bad Boys. And what was really cool there was we had the number one movie, we had the number one soundtrack, we had the number one single and the number one video all at the same time. And so, yeah. And then I got a call from Miramax. And I went and I did, that was the funnest part probably of my career was I did train spotting. I did the crow. did, ah you know, films like Hellraiser, ah a bunch of stuff. I did about 25 films there. And then. So you transition from music to movies at that point. Got it. I start it was kind of like I got into soundtracks. And then the leap was when I went to Miramax, anything that was soundtrack driven. So it was the younger part of the company where soundtracks and music set up the movie. So you kind of went out first. And like if you imagine something like The Greatest Showman or or Wicked, they know the music first and then you kind of introduce the film. So you use the music as your driver. all projects that had soundtrack first driven campaigns, I did those. um so, yeah, and then I left and started my own business, which was Urban World, which is still around today. And it's the largest minority film festival in the world. um while we were doing Urban World, were like, could we turn, you know, was kind of like this once a year conference and we're like, how can we make this monthly or weekly? And we said, let's make Netflix for movie theaters. And that became MoviePass. And so we launched the, we launched the nation's first theatrical subscription service. and brought in the ability to pay one monthly fee and go to the movies all you want. And that's, we did that. I want to go back a little bit because I think there's a couple of key lessons here. So you started out as a gopher, which is for those that aren't aware what that role is, it's really you do whatever the director or your manager says, Yeah, go get this, go get that, go get this. Yeah. But I think the lesson, but that opened up an opportunity for this other position where you became the manager of Boys to Men and Queen Latifah. I guess if you were speaking to young people, what's the lesson there that you could pass on to them? You know, so I'm a voracious reader of biographies and so are autobiographies. And so I was reading about David Geffen and I don't know how many people remember him, but so David Geffen founded Geffen Records and he had a lot of huge artists. so there was in Geffen's book, he started out in CAA. He started out in the mail room. And when I was reading Geffen's book, he talked about getting there early before everyone else and leaving last. And he talked about how certain executives were there first in the morning. And then you could, when everybody was leaving at five o'clock, you would get access to a lot of these executives because everyone had gone home. And that was the biggest piece of evidence when Gerald Busby, who was the CEO of Motown, When Gerald came in and drove his car in, man, I was down in the parking lot getting his bag and grabbing his stuff and do you need anything? And I wasn't in his department and I made sure he always saw me. I got his paper, I got everything. And you made, I heard a person say, when you don't show up for work, people should feel it. And your presence is so omnipresent. whether it's your smiles or you get stuff or someone in a meeting says, well, we need somebody, you know, and your hand shoots up. You don't care what the mission is. And that really set me apart. And when I got, when I heard that there was a position open, it was like eight o'clock at night. I walked right into the CEO's office and I was standing at Gerald's desk and I said, Mr. Buseby, if you give me a chance, I promise I will not let you down. you know, and and he said, OK, kid, get here, get out of my office. And that's how I got the job. But every all my peers, they they went home to go party and get high. And I'm I'm in there eight, nine o'clock and I'm getting pulled in the exact meetings because I'm getting them coffee. They tell me, sit down, kids, sit down. want you to hear this, you know. And then and that Geffen book really taught me in every biography I read, like Steve Jobs talked about answering company emails. I still do that today. I answer company emails and customer service. So I would tell young people read autobiographies and biographies. I read one a week. Still to this day, I just finished um Aristotle on NASA's last week. I constantly read those because It's like uploading data on how to maneuver in a human world. um And the other thing is show up early and leave late. Be there and raise your hand every single time there's an opportunity to do something. It doesn't matter what it is. Take the bad jobs. I love it. I love it. And I think there's a lot to be said too about humility, right? Because you were willing to start out in jobs that were, know, what others would see as kind of like probably beneath them. But no, you just, did whatever needed to be done. You know, grab bags, get the paper, get people coffee, and you just did it. And that level of humility, I think is... you for anyone listening that's young and you're just getting started in the world, like that is, that will take you really far. If you just approach life with a little bit of humility and add value however you can. And everyone's got to start out somewhere. And that's a great lesson from your life, Stacy. Appreciate you sharing that. Let's... hear that saying, uh seek humility or it will find you? You know, go. It's rough. Yeah. Let's transition to Mogul, because this is quite exciting. Maybe take us through, I know in the last couple of weeks there was a big announcement around the funding announcement, and ah maybe we can start with that, and then tell us about Mogul, and then we can get into how um Mogul utilizes the blockchain and how... how some of the services are on SUI. Yeah, sir. So Mogul is um so we were looking at ways to expand our footprint in the movie past space. And we kind of saw two directions. We saw you could go social, which really drives you into an advertising direction. Or we saw making our service stickier through games and and and contest and things like that. And as we started looking around, Around 2016, I had started working on this idea. I had read Lou Wasserman's book called The Last Mogul. And I thought, out of you, everybody thinks of Hollywood from the um actor or director or the movie project. They think of it only at that level. But no one really thinks of it at the Bob Iger level or up above where you have a budget and you need to make content and you need to convince people to see it or buy it. And then, you know, your quarterly held up to a standard of how did you perform based on your stock? And um so one thing led to another, and I started forming this game called Mogul, which was, I didn't know if it would be a VR game or if it was going to be a like a Dungeons and Dragons card game, but I knew there was something, because people are always going, they're armchair quarterbacking, oh, I wouldn't have put him in that role, or I wouldn't have put her, or I would have done it this way or that way. And this movie's not going to make money, or yes, it is, it's going to make a lot of money. And people are always talking trash across the lines, right? And so as we were trying to find some new blue sky space, we were looking at that, and we started looking at fantasy sports. And we were like, you know, sports fans get to talk trash to each other and they get to put their money where their mouth is. And we were like, what if you could do that for movie fans? And then we locked ourselves in a room to really nail down the mechanics. And with fantasy sports, it's like you're a manager. There is a, you get a team, you then pick your athletes, but they're playing. their stats in a real world way. Well, movies have a lot of similar stats. have box office, you have per screen average, you have a uh social rating, you know, how many thumbs up or how many uh rotten tomatoes. And then you have like in the Oscars, like in a horse race, who's gonna win. So we realized it had a lot of the same similar attributes. And so instead of being a team manager, we were like, what if your goal is to become a Mogul? And so we built it out. We announced it at in Dubai at, at the sweep, uh, base camp conference from that stage two weeks ago. And we're about to drop it and put it out there and go find out if there's a there there. But right now the excitement is pretty sizable. And yesterday we announced that we just closed. a hundred million dollar credit facility towards building out on blockchain specifically to build out this service. So we got a big vote of confidence that we announced yesterday. That's quite exciting. When I think of Mogul, I think of it as kind of like part prediction market, part fantasy sports. Like if fantasy sports, prediction markets, and film got married, their child would be Mogul. Something like that. Is that okay? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. um So maybe we can pick like a specific use case. because I'm really curious about this and how this would work. So if there's a, yeah, yeah, yeah, please do. it's the fourth quarter and um it's Oscar season. And so I pick Wicked and you're going to pick Anorah as your movie. And Wicked, I'm going to also pick Cynthia Erivo as my actress. You're going to pick Mickey, who's the lead star in Anorah. You picked an independent film and I picked a major blockbuster. My film cost 200 million to make and I gross 400 million. So I two X'd my value. You picked a movie that cost six million to make, but it made 60 million. So you 10 X'd your value. Cynthia and Mickey both were nominated for Oscars. I lost, but you won the Oscar. So in the lineup, you would on movie to movie, you would be 10 X and on actor to actor, we would be, you would be 10 X up and you won the Oscar. Right. And so you get additional points because in that, in that part you won. So if we were both portfolios for $1 that you put in, you got like a hundred dollars back for my dollar. got $3 back and that would give you your points and then you would, if we had bet real money, you would have won the pool and I would have lost. And that's basically how it works. No, that is really interesting. ah How do you think people... So first of all, who are you targeting with Mogul the product? Yeah, so we see three different demographics. We see the obviously the film fans, people who go to movies, and then where that overlaps with people who have a familiarity with oh either movie trivia or they're really comfortable with fantasy sports. And then the third group we see is those that are familiar with blockchains and cryptocurrencies and We see to, I know we'll get into this about building on chain, but we see certain properties that make building on chain a smart business decision from a global rails perspective and from a trustless system that you want. That's not hackable. won't use hack, not hackable, but it's, it reduces the possibility because when you're dealing with multiple ledgers. And you have Oracle data, it's harder to fudge that or move it around or make it different. And so that's how part of the reasons why we feel not only is it smart, but it's necessary to go in a Web3 blockchain direction. I think those three target markets make a ton of sense and we'll definitely get into the blockchain stuff. But the crossover, the fantasy sports and the film buff, that is a really interesting category. um I'm curious, is there a name for that space between both categories? if not, yeah, so maybe if you're the first in that category, do have a name for it? You're the first person to ever ask. think we're to have to figure out how to coin it, you know, but, um, you know, I, I think we've been using the term. So daily fantasy sports is a category DFS and ours. We've been referring it to daily fantasy entertainment. So DFE and that's right now, that's how we're categorizing it as it still has the same elements. but it is entertainment focused rather than sports focused. That's cool, that's cool. I've, I'm a big, I study category, category design. And you know, being the first in any category almost guarantees that you're gonna win that space for a really long time. so that's, yeah, yeah. But that's also a signal, right? That's a signal that you guys are winning and everyone's trying to go and get after you. Yeah, but you know, the. you know, if you want to be like the Kleenex, the Xerox, the Coca-Cola of this new category, that's quite exciting, Stacy. How do you, uh I guess looking at like, you know, consumer behavior, you know, if I'm film buff and I dabble sometimes in fantasy sports and betting, how do you envision like people engaging with Mogul? Like, I guess how will their behavior How do you envision their behavior changing going forward? Yeah, so one of the things what we were really excited about is the ability to create something that creates more engagement. So fantasy sports makes people watch and it ratchets up the passion. So I'll give you an example. So we've got these kind of micro games underneath. And so one of them is called head to head. So let's say Taylor Swift had a concert film. It did this at the box office. And so all of the Swifties are like, they, that concert film was higher grossing than Justin Bieber's concert films. Like, let's say that's the last one that had the highest opening weekend. Well, now here comes Beyonce two months later. And so the beehive is like, we want to beat Taylor Swift. And so because you might have a lot of people who have wagered on that, that some are saying you can't beat Taylor. and some are saying, we will be Taylor, you actually have people going to the theater who are gonna try and drive in the same way you'll hear, like I saw on my um ex feed this just yesterday, there was a woman saying that uh Ryan Coogler's film Sinners is only 85 million from crossing 300 million uh threshold. And it would cross that in the same tame time window as avatar. And she was saying, if you've seen it once, go see it again. Let's get it past 85 million. Well, that's an example. They're not even competing against anybody else there. They're competing against, you know, an avatar number. But if there was a challenging group saying you're not going to make it. you know, it's a rally cry for fans. to show their fandom. So I think it creates a whole level of engagement that otherwise isn't there. And that's what I think is really exciting that we can bring in how to alter behavior. I think the insight that you came upon, uh that you shared earlier around that in sports, there's a lot of trash talking between teams and fans, but you don't see the same thing in music. You don't see the same thing in movies. Yes you do. Come on Kendrick Lamar and Drake. It's fine. There is a lot of trash talking. no, you're right. But not so much in movies, right? And you definitely can't bet on it. ah And so this adds a whole new layer of like, okay, this is interesting. ah So what do you say to people who might have this criticism? know, Hollywood actors and actresses, they're really entitled. They take offense easily. They want to have kumbaya and be nice to everybody in public. And um that's why you don't see any fights happening in, at least in public spaces. So because of that, maybe this may not work, Stacy. Um, you know, movie going is 10 times larger than sporting events. And so in the U S 126 million tickets are sold across hockey, football, basketball, baseball, and soccer. A billion movie tickets are sold across the same U S markets with movies. One $100 million movie and a four day weekend will have more people go to the physical movie than the entire NFL season combined. What we see, we see trash talking about movies all the time. People like an actor, people hate an actor, people, you see actors suing each other. You see what's happening with uh Ryan Reynolds wife and that whole lawsuit. And so we actually see a lot of that, that you get in like with K-pop films. When K-pop stars drop a film or drop a concert film, it's crazy. And so there are people who really do draw at the box office. There's international numbers and there we see it, I think because we live in it. But I don't think it's that different than my, when I hear my friends say, that team's never gonna make it to the Super Bowl, is just like somebody saying, there's no way that movie's gonna make money. And yet everybody said Minecraft was not gonna perform and Minecraft became a meme. And when people, when he was saying, I am Sam or I am, um No, he says, am Steve. When I was in the theater and he says, I am Steve, people were throwing popcorn and losing their minds. And it ended up doing $120 million when the best critics said it wasn't going to break 60. So I think it's, you know, it's the same. It's there. Yeah, I definitely agree with you. think there's a there there. It's like, but it's such a new category that you're going to have learnings along the way. And this is going to be very interesting. I love the innovation and the, excuse me, and the insights that you came upon that, you know, the components that you see in sports, like why doesn't that exist in the same way and same level as it does in music and entertainment? I think there's definitely something there. um When you roll out Mogul, by the way, where are you in the roadmap? You just announced the funding announcement earlier in the week. Tell us about the product and when people can get involved. Yep. So we introduced a wait list in late April. uh 400,000 people went on. We scrubbed that list that ended up being 200,000 of that last week. let in the first 500,000. And so we're gating those 200. If you want to get on the list, go to Mogul.moviepass.com. Make sure to put your email there. And that is the beginning of that. We know that there's going to be kinks. We know that there's going to be learning curves. So it's between an alpha and a beta right now. uh But the main code has all been built and the big blocks are in place. Now the new, the playable nuances are getting put into place. And then we're going to have people in our discord giving us feedback already. And when you're one of those people playing, go into Discord and tell us we're paying attention and we're going to build it in the open arena um with everybody's help. And how does the I guess how does a market get started and how do you find people to play against? How does all that work? Yeah. So you'll, you'll be in the app and right now the, we're going to get a, an Oracle data feed of all of the global box office, but we're going to start with the U S and then it'll be us and world. And then if I'm in Japan and I just want to do Japanese releases in Japan, or if I want to do, um, uh, you know, I'm in New Zealand or wherever you, you can go local. Mm. be able to go ah the major market, which is the US market, US Canada, or you can go global. You'll be able to do that with the dropdown menu and pick you want India. um All of that will be there. So we have a data feed from around the world of all of the box offices. Dude, Bollywood, K-pop, Korea, it's, uh that's gonna be really interesting. uh You mentioned this oracle. I'm not familiar with an oracle that takes real world feeds of movie data. Yes. Yeah. So, uh, so basically IMDB or things like com score, take the box office and feeds that in. Then you have additional oracles that you can, you can use the API separately. ah you've got rotten tomatoes, you've got Cisco and Ebert or Roger Ebert. think it's called, um, you've got. different sites that'll do four or five stars. And so you can pull all that in and turn those algorithms into a point system. And that's the heavy lifting of what we had to do. And since in gambling terms, we're not the house, meaning we don't have the dice, we don't have the cards, we don't have the horses. We're just reporting that information. And we're really the station that says, Okay, we're going to be a universal player that says whether you're fiat or crypto, can, you know, place your wagers and your decisions and, and, or your memberships. And then whether you are. Want to do domestic, international, whatever territories you can do that. And then you can go peer to peer. or you can play up against the major leaderboard and there will be different types of leaderboards, either regional or global. And all of those configurations is really what we've been building is the capability of all of those different configurations. And I'm happy to say we've built most of it and it's rare to go. So we've got pre-season, people that are going in now are loading in pre-season. can pick your ah movies and things like that and play around with it, but we didn't turn on the competition yet. Got it. So as you're talking, I had the thought, what if you had like an actor playing, betting on themselves that I'm gonna win an Oscar this year? Or like, have you thought of that kind of situation where they're actually betting on their own movie and the potential results of it? I mean, I guess it's not different than an athlete making a wager on the winning. think I know there's certain clubs or sports that frown upon it. I you know, because you could potentially throw the game. But I think with movies, it's harder for an individual to have a have an effect ah one way or the other. Yeah, the variables are much harder to control. And then the biggest thing is Imagine a game, imagine if games were scored on the way movies are scored. It's not the outcome of the game. It's how many people watched it and what was their sentiment. It could be a low scoring game, but there were fist fights and people said that was the best game ever. And then it could be a high scoring game that had a huge range where there's a 30 point difference and people were like, it was boring and they went home early. But what was great about when Jordan played, how many times was it like two seconds on the clock and it's gonna go to Michael Jordan, you know, and it was always cliffhangers. And we don't even remember what the score of the game was. We just remember the cliffhangers, everybody in that stadium, everyone watching us, who it was gonna go to. And so I think If we've got Mission Impossible coming, it's not what the score is or just how many people, it's what, how does it feel watching Tom Cruise hang on the outside of a plane, a biplane, walking on a wing at 60 something years old. And we know it's him, it's not CGI. He's not in a studio. Well, that's part of, think. what's similar about sports is when you're seeing that movie, it does not have a pause button and you're seeing it in real time at that moment and how it makes you feel and the impact. That's where when we remember sports games, it's all about how it made us feel, you know? Yeah, I love that. um Tell us about the blockchain component. You guys have, as you mentioned, you announced uh Mogul at the SUI conference in Dubai last two weeks ago, I think. Last week or two weeks ago, something like that. um Tell us about the blockchain component and I guess given all the layer ones, what was the decision to go with SUI? How did you come upon that decision? Yeah, so it starts, you know, in 2024. I'm sorry, in 2023, actually, Animoca. So Yatt, who's the CEO of Animoca, I get a call from Yatt and I felt like I was getting a call from somebody from outer space. It was like, are you kidding? Like Yatt's calling me. And so Yatt was uh in San Francisco and he wanted to meet up And I happened to be in LA at the time. So I popped up, I flew up and we met at the San Francisco airport and we had this conversation and being a marketing person, I've always been about how do you reward fandom in very unique ways. And it's, it's been very tactile. It's been, here's a poster, signed poster. Here's a something that's autographed or here's a limited edition memorabilia. And Yad and I had this whole conversation about digital rights and digital ownership. And the most expensive ratio of what it costs to what it was today is there's a little limited edition Boba Fett doll. It's just that tall. there was a, his backpack had a little rocket on it that you press his chest and the rocket would shoot off. Well, they canceled it and destroyed all of them because it was a choking hazard. So a little kid could shoot it in his mouth and the missile would get lodged and it would choke. So they got rid of it, they canceled it, and they destroyed everything, or at least they thought. And supposedly 25 survived. And today, if you want... one of those limits, supposedly there's four in the world left, because the rest ended up in landfills. If you get one of those, they're a quarter of a million dollars each. And so Yad and I were having a conversation about movie and sports collectibles, memorabilia and all of that stuff. And we started talking about digital rights ownership, the ability for people to invest in film, the ability to have smart contracts that fans can, co-own IP and we just had one of these weird, you know, mythical conversations at the San Francisco airport at this restaurant eating sushi. And the next thing you know, he says, if you guys are into, we think that he said we have five investment strategies. We invest in gaming, sports, music, art and film. He said, those are the five that have the biggest fan bases. And he said, we haven't made an investment in the film sector. And if you guys are down, we'd like to invest in MoviePass because you built the actively paying fan, you know, super group. And so they came in and they led our, they led our seed round. I, when I bought MoviePass back and relaunched it, Yatt led the round. so it was like, we so we are helmets were down on this direction automatically because I was in lockstep with everything he was saying. Then as we got the company back up and on its feet and were heading down the track, we all went into crypto winner. It was as as the presidency changed. Right before all of that was coming down the pipe, uh the Mistin team reached out and they had seen the MoviePass documentary and which is MoviePass Movie Crash, which is on HBO. So they saw it and they reached out and they didn't know that Animoca was investing in us and we were heading down a Web3 path. So they call up and said, have you ever thought about being on chain and that and I was like, yeah, we're heading in that direction. They're like, what? and so that was, we had a deal finished inside of maybe four weeks from start to finish. And so what had happened was our ticketing. We determine again, and we think of it not so much in a novelty way. We think of it as a hardcore business reason why it makes sense to build this way. So one was. You can put your ticketing there. Your tickets can become NFTs. uh They can become collectibles. Many people keep their ticket stubs. uh Many hardcore fans do that. uh You also have the ability to put it in your wallet. So if I wanted to go look at your wallet and I see, wow, look at all of the, you know, Peter's movies that he sees and those are NFTs, those are verifiable. uh You can reward the fans. on chain in a very constructive way ah through digital, you know, between NFTs and PO apps and other things. And then as we started to head towards Mogul, it's like you can't pull that off internationally as easy. If you were just running on fiat rails, once you have crypto rails, you can, you can just run everywhere and That really was the reason why we went in that direction. And your question about why SWE, oh when we were meeting with level ones, it's almost a pride of wallet difficulty. And we wanted a system that is very user-friendly to Web2 and to uh be a very good on-ramp. Their pitch to us was one thing. we use social login to on-ramp everybody. I was like, I'm done. I'm done. Let's go. Because everybody else was like, yeah, we use hot wallets and we use cold wallets and you got to put your password in five different directions and you got to put part of it in a safe deposit box. You got to call your family and your dog, you got to eat one of them and you got to get your dog a suppository to go get the other. It was just like, why? And when, uh When Evan and I sat down at Denim and uh Evan, we went to lunch in San Francisco and these guys were, we think they were critical about the space. said, we think using blockchain is too hard for customers. We want to make it easy. We came from Apple. We came from Metta. We're engineers from those two. We're all about simplicity and we're going to use simple email social login as the main on-ramp. I was like, I'm I'm done. Here's the part that I really like. I mean, all the story is amazing. It's that you didn't start out thinking blockchain. Instead, you start out thinking, like, what's the insight and what's the problem we're trying to solve? And it turns out blockchain was a good solution to the problem. And so it almost takes a backseat, right? But what's in the driver's seat instead is like the solution to a customer's problem and the opportunity. And blockchain just is an abler of whatever the solution you guys are coming up with. I love that. And that's kind of a different approach. First of all, it's a very common sense approach that a lot of folks in blockchain just for some reason or another don't have. Where a lot of folks come up with a solution and then they go backwards and try to find a problem. Yeah, and this is one of those, it's like this could potentially be a very very large market and that's amazing. Well, Stacy, let's fast forward a couple of years. um How do you see Mogul influencing the film industry? Let's say everything goes as planned. You guys are able to grow market share in a meaningful way. Business is great. How do you see Mogul influencing both the film industry as well as, you know, really box office analytics, audience engagement, all of that. Yeah, that is a great question. So I see three steps over a 30 year period. So movie passes 12, 13 years old. So we've been in the water for more than a decade, right? I think Mogul in the middle is gets people in the idea of deeper engagement, but they're they're really investing in a way they're investing in a predicted outcome. So I think over time you're going to prediction and the habit of putting money towards something. Then I think the next rocket booster after that. So let's say I do daily betting. I do weekly betting. I do monthly. Well, if I move that timeline further out to six months or two years now, why can't I use fan financing through decentralized protocol and say, let's let the fans pay for half the movie and let's give them back in on smart contracts that are automatic, they're managed, it's efficient. When you talked about finding a solution to a problem, Sollywood has a very big problem raising capital all the time. And you've got to go to the dentist and the studio, you have five banks basically that are five banks with 10 people at each deciding all the content we see. But what if those creators really didn't have to go through that banking system and they got to make what they want because their fans give them the liberty and the freedom to do that. They go to the banks as distribution partners. but they're not going to them as content creators. And when you look at the contract that uh Brian Coogler got that he gets his rights to his film back after 25 years, well, every filmmaker should be that way, you know? And the audience, so think about your kids then later. You were around when Ghostbusters came out the first time. it's 30 years later, they're gonna remake Ghostbusters, your movie is now still making money. And I think as we have a rise in AI, we're gonna have a rise in authenticity, people are still gonna care. Where'd you come from? Where'd you go to film school? Did you not go to film school? And seeing people from your town back you, I got to speak at Peter Jackson's film festival in New Zealand and I was their opening keynote speaker. And I said, what if Lord of the Rings was originally financed by the people of the Island of New Zealand? There's billions of dollars that would have flown back into New Zealand. So I think that what the digital, what the decentralized, I call it DeFiFi, decentralized film finance. What decentralized film finance will do is it will take communities and instead of the money that Hollywood now extracts from those communities, it will actually put the money back into the community. It'll go back where it came from. So think of the Ivy League schools have endowments. Well, the endowments are from the students that went there, got rich, and they committed to, if I make a lot of money, I'm gonna put it back into the endowment. You would have the same thing in communities. So think about Brooklyn and think about Austin and think about Nashville and think about these markets where they break this talent. That person may get a nice house on the hill, but everybody who helped them get there just got a movie ticket and a t-shirt. So ah that's why I think Web3 is so important. And why these rails, like you said, I'm solving a problem, not have a tech looking for a problem to solve. So I'm just saying, does this technology make it cheaper, better, faster? And if content creators can raise capital faster, you're going to get more content and you're going to get better content. Yeah, and the opportunity, the diverse level of opportunities is immense if you grow the capital base. And that's so surprising the way you put it with like these 10 banks control like the movies we see, like people don't think of it like that, but that's incredible. And the level of control these banks have. Yeah. There's five distribution companies that control 90 % of the content the globe sees. And there's two people at each place ahead of production and ahead of distribution that are deciding what comes out of them and what dies and what doesn't. yet you get better. whole spirit why I fell in love when I was reading Neuromancer and Kryptonomicon and reading because I'm a big sci-fi reader. When you were reading these books 10, 15 years ago when you read Johnny Mnemonic and all of them, it was about how do you get rid of decentralized power that causes these gating problems that one day we're doing DEI? No, we're not. We're supporting women. You know what? changed our mind. And it's all about who's in power at 1600 Pennsylvania Boulevard. And that's a stupid way to run the world. And so it needs to be that creativity finally has a pipeline that one of America's greatest exports is people of color and entertainment. know, when you travel the world, It's like, that kid's, I'm in Hong Kong and that kid's wearing a Kobe t-shirt. He's wearing a Kobe jersey. And I'm in Switzerland and he's rocking Jordans. you can go around the world and it's like, that's one of America's greatest exports. And yet there's four or five companies that benefit from that. And that's where I think you have a radical opportunity to change the world. I love that. Well, Stacy, this has been so fun. uh I learned a ton. I don't know a lot about the entertainment industry. And so this was really, really enjoyable for me, but I do love movies. And the category that you guys have, uh the insight that you guys stumbled upon and then now you've created Mogul to solve a problem and to create this new category is super exciting. And the blockchain component, very exciting. I will be sure to put all the relevant URLs and the show notes so that more people can get involved, get on the wait list. And any final words before we get off? I go check out the movies this weekend, go next weekend. um If you if you are one of those people that you got out of the habit of going. It's so much fun. There's a lot of great stuff. If you haven't seen Sinners or Mission Impossible, we're going into the summer. ah You know, there's such great there's an avatar at the end of the year. oh There's a new Superman coming like there's so much good stuff. And I think we're I think if we hit fandom, right, I think we're going to see a golden age of cinema because there's a generation who grew up on streaming and there's now a generation who said, were you there? Right. They're still posting and tweeting and doing social, but the social was, were you there? And if you weren't there and it's, it's kind of like when the concert comes to town, did you go see the concert or did you just watch it on TV, you know, six months later. And I think that authenticity is a resurgence in a very exciting time. And I'm thrilled for us to be playing in the movie industry at this moment. Amazing. Well, Stacy Spikes, thank you so much. Peter, thank you. I really enjoyed being, you had some great questions today. Yeah.