Samantha Yap, founder of Yap Global. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I want to start with uh your pin tweet, which is uh quite reflective of the journey that you've taken during your time as the founder of Yap Global, going back to 2018 when you first founded Yap. First of all, what led you to reflect and write this tweet? Yes, so you're referring to a tweet that I've titled, you know, building a generation of Web3 comms professionals. And, and yeah, I think so just to take it back, I am the founder of a crypto native PR agency. um We focus on helping people tell their stories and build trust in the crypto space. I have been doing this as we speak for eight years now and um I've grown a team and because we can't do this without people, I run a services business and my team has grown, right? And like, and with any organization, people come and go, you can't have someone stay for as long as eight years. um I mean, you can if you're building a different project, but like usually after like say, three to four years, people kind of want to grow and progress and try something new. the threat, I kind of reflected on it because so many people have shaped where Yap Global is today. And I'm actually quite pleased and proud to see that many of the people that I've worked with and have worked at Yap are now going on to continue to help projects and teams tell their stories. And they're doing it in... uh these crypto-webdick organizations. So it's kind of like, yeah, there's like an alumni of Yap-Yappers. It's quite uh ironic that we're Yap Global, a PR agency, and then yapping has become this term that everyone likes to use. I mean, yeah, I'm very proud to see that there are Yappers in all areas of the industry. And it's actually quite nice because some of them go into in-house comms roles and we still work with them today. So it's not like when they leave YAP, it's like we say goodbye. It's like, hey, we get to work together and collaborate on another project and just in a format. uh I kind of jumped in directly to the tweet, but I really should have started out with kind of the tagline of YAP Global. It's we tell stories, we build trust. And um want to hear from you on how you help build, create stories or tell stories from these crypto projects that are clients. um But I think what's really special about your tweet, your tweet thread is that you're telling your story. And you're almost um kind of a, what is it called? It's, you're demonstrating kind of what you do as a service organization for other clients, but you're doing it on behalf of yourself. You're telling your story of like, you're taking someone through the journey of like how you guys started eight years ago and all the challenges that you've faced since then, the successes, the challenges and um I'd encourage anyone to go to your Twitter and then read your thread because it's pretty cool. I think there's a lot of really neat, really good lessons in there, which I want to get to during our conversation. So tell us about Yap Global. You guys are a service organization, a public relations agency. You help Web3 projects, crypto projects tell their stories, and you build trust. is the tagline. Tell us how you do that. Yeah, so I mean, going back, going to the term tagline and the second part of it, which is build trust. I entered the crypto industry in 2017 and it was fairly new still. And every time the crypto industry grows and hits an all-time high, there's more of a growing interest for it. And then every time it kind of has a dip, there's a lot of, you know, uh negativity, negative stigma around it, know, skepticism in the media about it. So trust is something that's really, was really hard to gain and build in crypto because everyone was kind of on their guard. whenever you interacted or talked to any crypto industry. And so, you know, I used to be a journalist, so that's my background and that's kind of how this PR agency came about. really the heart behind YAP Global was I just saw a need to help these really bright minds and intelligent founders tell their stories and build trust because stories is what will as you mentioned, take people on a journey and that builds more credibility and trust because if you are just, you know, say pitching a story and you're just this new brand name that they've never really heard about, it's really easy for people to be on guard and be like, who are you? Where did you come from? So I think telling stories is how we've done it. Now we've also done, like we've done it mainly um with media because, uh you know, And I think still today, I know that the media being put in and being scrutinized of how trustworthy the media are because, know, X is rising as a platform for people to just go direct and communicate what they do. But still, when our, you know, maybe our parents or our aunties and uncles like want to get information and know what's happening with news, what do they do? They read the news, they read. they get their source is media publications, right? This could be like, you know, just mainstream wise, the BBC or, you know, the New York Times. uh That's kind of where people go to get like the up-to-date news. uh It's the same thing with crypto. It's like, there's the crypto trade publications, like uh the CoinDesk and the Block and Blockworks that have uh editorial guidelines that people trust. So when you see, you know, block works go out with an article about, you know, a new fundraise or a new product, like, you know, and can trust that a journalist has done their job, their due diligence to write the story. And so we kind of operate in that. We do a lot of media relations. So, and a lot of the work we don't do pay for play. So a lot of the placements or the media coverage that we secure for clients, it's really earned, but to earn that requires work and requires that trust building, but also requires like good um one storytelling, but also like added value. I mean, it has to be a newsworthy value um for them to write about it. So yeah, I hope that explains it. one of those really, really underappreciated but super, super important skills, really in any field. But I think especially in crypto, when you're working with a highly technical founder that has, you know, that has an idea of like the problem that they're trying to solve and they have a solution, but it's highly technical. How do you work with founders to create a story that is relatable, maybe down to earth? that non-technical people can understand. What does that process look like in working with the technical founder in creating a story? Yeah, it really starts with one, making them quite comfortable to tell their story because, m yeah, sometimes the technical founders just want to talk about the tech and want to talk about the product and what they're building. um So actually, when we start working with any project or founder is we like to do a one hour workshop. uh And really, we just ask them questions, but like different questions. uh And then we kind of hear how they respond and yeah, sometimes it actually gets quite personal. It's like, oh, why did you want to start this in the first place? What's your vision? What's your mission? So it's like kind of getting to the heart of like why they're building what they're doing because yeah, of course the projects and the founders that we work with, we believe and trust and you know, Cause we also do our due diligence when we pick our clients, you know, we're not just going to represent anyone who comes across our contact form. Um, we want to also believe in what they're doing. So we usually already see, you know, the vision and the mission behind the project. And then we just get to know the founder a little bit more. So we start there, we do the workshop and then yeah, pretty much we're a team of like that formulate stories. write so many stories a day. We. brainstorm, we get creative and we're like, sometimes it's like that off comment that they've made and we're like, wait, that's the story that would make a really good feature story or that would make a really good profile piece. So, um, it kind of takes a team to brainstorm and workshop. the, you know, finding that statement that they say that might be offhand and not part of the main thing that they were talking about. Like it takes a lot of experience and it takes really years to hear that and to be able to recognize that. What in your life has helped you recognize those snippets that are maybe said under their breath or offhand that can become like part of the center stage in their story? Yeah, so I studied journalism uh at university and my first job was as a journalist at a national broadcaster in Singapore. um And so I, that was my job. I was a journalist. And so my job was to actually go out and interview people and get as much information to tell compelling stories. um I was very fortunate to be trained by, you know, quite like old school but great editors and it was quite like intense because if you go in and you interview someone and then you come back and you don't have like all the information or you you didn't ask them the the main questions like then that's kind of a like, you know a bad mark on your work and I always ask like, okay What does my editor want me to like need me to get out of this interview? So I always kind of think about how to like cover What I have like if I have a 15 minute interview with someone I just try to gather as much information. So I think it's training I was a trained journalist and so that's actually helped me become a better PR person and that's kind of also brought value to where Gap is today because of the way I was trained as a journalist to find a good story. And also like my, uh you know, mandate and mission as a journalist is to tell good stories. mean, most journalists, like why do they do what they do? Like they need to write good stories because of course one need to impress the editor, but also like people do it for like the clicks and likes too. I mean, that's kind of... uh what they're doing it for, but also to like, you know, get the inside scoop, get the most current, tell the most compelling story. So that was kind of my mission. So then I think I got sharp and good at doing that. That's how I, then I just flip it when it comes to like helping founders with their stories. You know, learning to ask good questions, like good, insightful questions that really elicit amazing answers from your, from your, person you're interviewing takes a lot of time and skill. em And your time as a journalist sounds like that's, that's what helped you be successful in your work in the crypto space. When you interview and spend time with founders, what types of questions do you ask? that help them kind of get out of their comfort zone and helps you as the PR agency kind of discover those stories on their behalf. Yeah, actually some of this happens, you know, off of Zoom and sometimes it's like meeting them at the conferences, having, sitting with them next to dinner. And that's why I think, you know, we share that you've, we've met over dinner because we like to kind of, yeah, bring our clients to dinner at conferences and get to know them more personally. Really, it's like, sometimes is more of a, hey, em what do you enjoy doing? Like... when you're not building a project and it's just like learning kind of their, you know, getting their personal life, getting to know a bit more about their personal life, what their hobbies are. But at the same time, it's, you know, just some questions is like, what made you, like, where did you get the idea from? What made you do what you're doing or why are you doing what you're doing? Like a lot of this is quite like actually straightforward. It's a lot of soul searching, existential questions, like, because you know, these founders, they're spending their days and their life. They're like, their project is their life, right? For many, is their, especially entrepreneurs, they just dedicate their whole days to their work. So there has to be something there that makes them tick and that makes them keep going. Cause if there isn't, then they wouldn't be around, right? Everyone has like something in them, like everyone that's building and like also just weathering the crypto highs and lows. Like the crypto industry is not easy. Like even for me personally, it's like, you know, since joining in 2017, I think what we've been through three bear markets. We also weathered like the FTX collapse, remember the Terra Luna. It's a really tough. market to be in, highly volatile. So for some of our founders who are still believing in what they're doing and still standing strong after all of that, like there has to be something fundamental and like a deeper, uh yeah, purpose of why they're doing what they're doing. Cause otherwise, I mean, this industry, as I said, is not easy. to beard. And getting to that deeper, kind of like the mission and the vision and the deeper sense of like why the founder is doing what they're doing could potentially take many sessions. Have you had situations where you've worked with founders and maybe they don't quite see the purpose of, Samantha, why are you asking me these questions? And why are we meeting three times when, you know, I need you guys to do this thing now? Have you had situations like that where they're maybe impatient and not quite willing to work with you? Tell us about that. with them. We don't get three sessions with them because we only get that like, at the start, we get like, you know, their commitment maybe for like a one hour or two hour session. But we pretty much like have to like get to know them like on our weekly calls and and then again, meeting at conferences. So yes, the challenge that we face is that there are uh We're in the crypto space, so we deal with developer types. to them, they just push for output. they're quite like, I'm not going say they're rigid, but they're very much like A plus B equals C. And this is it. This is the output. So this should happen, right? They program, they code, they write code. And it's easy to write code and design an output. in crypto, I'm sorry, in PR, it's you. You can't guarantee the output. Like I can't guarantee that like, co-edness is going to write your story, but we have to make sure we have a compelling pitch and a compelling angle for them to write their story. So we deal with this challenge all the time. So yeah, I mean, my answer to you is we don't get this time, but it's over time. I would say, um, I'm quite proud that we have built and developed relationships with our clients and some of them some of them have stayed with us. I have like clients that are s- been with us for three years, which is actually like sometimes longer than, yeah, the tenure of some of our staff. So it's like our clients are quite loyal to YAP Global, which I'm very grateful for. And so we kind of know them. I think over time we know them. Like after three years, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's a testament to the value that YAP Global provides. Now, there's been a lot of, you know, in crypto, a lot of talk around like narratives and uh stories in general. Maybe we could back up a little bit and focus a little bit on kind of some definitions. Like, what is a narrative? So if you were speaking to a potential client and then you were sharing with them, maybe they asked you like, what is... What is a narrative? What is a story? Like why is that important to us as a crypto project? How would you respond? Yeah, I would say a narrative is like a trend that has grown into a bigger, like, story. I don't know if that makes sense, but like, because trends fade, so trends could be like a term that, like, like, I like how For example, zero-knowledge technology becomes this trend and buzzword every day. It's come back. Back then in the early days, it was about privacy coins and zero-knowledge proofs for that. Then it was quiet on that. Then later on, zero-knowledge tech came back up for infrastructure and then it went quiet. Now it's come back up for roll-ups and scalability. That's a trending thing. A narrative is like a broader story or like, that kind of like has taken on more of like legs. That's what we like to say in, PR. so say maybe the narrative of, I mean, at the time we were speaking, which is like, not great, but like that Ethereum is, you know, not united or, you know, and then like that's kind of grown into like more negative sentiments around it. Um, and so, but that like, that's kind of lasting for say longer than like six months. So, I mean, that's how would describe a narrative. But then yeah, but narratives are like, like trends come and go. Narratives are sometimes storylines that like stay for a while. Like this is really hard to define, but I hope you get the gist. No, I think the theorem foundation example is a good one. um And I want to kind of double click into that because that is kind of, you know, there comes a point where there's narrative and then it creates a public perception. And then the public perception becomes like the story that people have in their minds when they think of the Ethereum Foundation. And so the example that you gave that currently the idea is that, you know, it's not united. They're kind of fragmented. kind of, you know, doing a bunch of things kind of separate from each other, things are disjointed. That's kind of the, it feels to me that's the narrative right now. Now the foundation is doing a bunch of things to change that. uh But if you were to counsel them and advise them on like what else needs to happen from a PR perspective, because PR can break and or create, you know, really amazing organizations, right? You could really make or break organizations. um And I feel like the Ethereum Foundation is kind of on the precipice of like they could turn things around and or things could continue sliding. And PR feels like one of the key ingredients that kind of they need. And I don't know if they're a client of yours or if you can speak on their behalf, but would be curious to, if they were listening, like what kind of advice would you give them? So they're not a client of ours and I kind of have like, know, so, okay, I've seen this is more of a general comment, but I've seen there's this no PR PR tactic or no marketing marketing tactic that the crypto industry loves. So it's like, we're not gonna say anything because we want to be like, um Transparent and we like we we don't want to have a stance because we want to be neutral But by doing that then like the narrative like takes yeah, basically goes beyond them and like they don't have control of it so um I think it's by choice that they're not really saying anything and like not really Listening or doing anything um about it because I think they kind of want to be neutral and I've this is not just uh On on a theater foundation. I have seen many projects that like no We're not gonna say anything about this because we want to be neutral but that's actually not the way to go because if if you really want to Shape and actually build a you know Positive ecosystem and you actually want to achieve what you you set out to achieve like I mean the aetherium White paper has set out a mission and and and and and wants projects to adopt what it like what it's building and um or build on on the the technology like everyone has a mission like why does Why do things exist right like? um now if I think about it can now like thinking about like Bitcoin because Bitcoin doesn't really have any likes most people but But that's why people joke, like Bitcoin's not gonna meme of itself. But like there's people behind the Ethereum Foundation, right? So yeah, I guess my message to them is like, you not controlling the narrative is you letting the... like you're letting the misinformation and misunderstanding of what you guys are doing get away. So you're letting it happen. So... You should take control of that. I mean, that's what we advise across the board. Now we've worked with uh quite impressive large organizations that have like great PR comp set up, like very organized. We're like some of them were just one agency in like a global, you know, network of agencies. So yeah, that's kind of how large corporations do it. And I think we should learn from that. Yeah, and I think the phrase that I've heard that I agree with is, you know, if you don't tell your story, other people are going to tell it for you. And I think that that maxim is true. um No matter what size organization you are, like you need to own your story and tell your own story. Otherwise, like everyone will make up their own story and say that about you. And one of those could could become the dominant story, which may not be true. ah And I think this is especially true for crypto with the whole like credible neutrality thing. Like at the end of the day, you know, each of these projects is their own project has their own story and they need to tell their story. And foundations are no different. um Tell us the, know, if you were speaking with, you know, crypto projects like, and they don't quite see the importance of public relations or communications. Like what kind of, I guess, education and I guess what can you tell them? Now keep in mind, a lot of these projects are technical founders and it's not that they don't see the value, it's just maybe they don't know yet. And so what kind of things can you tell them so that they see the value of proper communications, whether it's narrative storytelling and or crisis management, damage control, anything like that. Like what can you tell them? Yeah, it's very like cliche line, but like people like to say, oh, build the tech and they will come. But actually. It's it's actually quite noisy out there. There's a lot of tech being built, so em you actually if you want people to use their technology and have you trust what you're building and actually firstly understand what you're building. uh Communications is very important. em Communications is also educational. So don't just see it as like, and it is not all just like self shilling and like, cause I know everyone's like, Oh, I don't want to come across too shilly, but it's, it's really education. And, uh, and like, mean, everyone should just stop and think about like how much information they can absorb a day. There's a limit and you can't absorb everything in a day. So how do you ensure that the developers that you want to reach are, are spending. not even an hour, like spending 15 minutes reading your like recent blog or recent paper about what you're building. Hey, I'm so sorry. I talking about, yeah, so how it's very noisy out there. so like communication is actually education. So it's informing people about what you're doing. really, you're lucky that people would spend 15 minutes reading your paper. mean, there's so much information out there and available. So yeah, I think the... getting people's attention is, is, uh is like gold. And so proper strategic communications is the best way to do that. Let's talk about the noise for a minute because I think that's I Think that's a big a pretty serious problem in crypto There's so many voices and it's it's happening primarily on Twitter And so I think we have a couple of problems where we kind of we've created for ourselves an echo chamber where it's it's mainly just one channel But there's so many other channels that I think have a lot of potential that we haven't explored yet And so I want to hear you know your thoughts on other channels of distribution and like what has worked for clients of yours. And getting through the noise, like what are some strategies you've helped projects with to get through the noise because there's a lot of noise, especially with Kaido and now Cookie and it's just so noisy out there. I think by the nature of us being a PR agency, we're already helping filter out the noise because there's only a handful, I'm not gonna say just handful, but like there's only one Bloomberg, there's only one CoinDesk. And then within each of those media publications, there's only a handful of journalists that Um, all have different beats and I cover different things. So actually to get the attention of a reporter, um, is actually the value that we bring and is actually why clients stay with us, right? Because if you say go to an event, um, and you know, there's what, like a hundred speakers on stage and you know, how do you ensure and get a journalist to talk to your client? That's kind of what we specialize in. So in terms of cutting through the noise, PR actually does that. um Because yeah, there are what, like thousands of tokens and projects, but like Bloomberg's only gonna write like, you know, two to three industry crypto stories a day. um Not even, you know, because they have a lot to cover as well. So really it's the media and how do you get their attention? And it's actually quite, it's a traditional method. mean, PR has been around for years. So we're kind of, we're like a traditional firm just servicing a web three industry. So really it's that because, you know, X is also quite noisy. As you said, with Kaito Cookie as well, there's this whole competition about how to earn gaps or snaps. I don't really even know. Like people can try what they want, but like, uh But what I can know that we can really hone in on and like it's our craft is to tell a good news story that's good enough to like land in the paper or land on, you know, CNBC TV. um So that's how we do it and how I recommend doing it because actually comms is still very important. Yeah. With m more more projects looking at working with influencers or KOLs, how does that strategy align with the PR strategy? And can they work together? And how, from a YAPS perspective, how do you work with projects that may want to also work with influencers? Yeah, so that's a tough one. We don't do any like KOL pitching or KOL management just purely because they're operating in a different... I mean, it's hard. It's all subjective and every KOL is different and they have a different niche. um We very much with PR, we really respect journalistic integrity and the ethical guidelines when it comes to... just proper journalism. uh And so that's how we operate, right? But like, if we were to pitch a story to say a KOL, um they have different ways of defining what is a good story and what's not. Now, that doesn't mean that we don't pitch to like, say, podcasts like yourself, Peter, like block by block, because I think podcasts though, do also still have a filtering tool, right? Like with you, you want to talk to um, yeah, guess of, uh, uh, uh, uh, caliber level of, of, importance. So we would not bring like, you know, a project that we don't think is worthy of being on your show. Um, and so it's still, it's still, um, working within the like framework of like what good journalism is and what's what, what, um, yeah, it's just, it's a good story and use values. So yeah. To answer your question in short, we don't do KOL management. It's a bit vague as well, then. Also, gets kind of a little bit gray area because, are you paying for someone to just write a tweet? Then that's kind of like pay for play, and that's kind of very influencer tactic kind of thing, which is, it could work. But then it doesn't really feel very genuine if someone is being paid to tweet about you. So, yeah. Yeah, excuse me. And I like the journalistic integrity, which again comes from your background. You bring that to the foreground. And that's important, especially for projects as they're considering working with agencies like YAP, that you guys approach things from the perspective of high integrity and in service of them, in service of their project. um Some projects, however, may want to work with KOLs on their own and also with a PR agency. And so in situations like that where they're going to do what the project will do what they want. And I'm just curious how you would, is there a way where both could work, but you don't have any control over the KOL stuff. That's up to the project and the founder. But if they choose to, because that's just kind of a... an audience they want to reach, whereas you may be reaching a different audience that's kind of more, um you know, that requires high trust versus kind of the audience of maybe, it's just a different audience, I guess. um I guess, how do you work in situations like that? Yeah, I mean, we do work with that. I mean, because we don't, you know, that's our remit. But then if they want to engage with KOLs, we do. um All we just do is we basically align on strategy. And actually, it's good to kind of complement the strategy, right? So if it's so like, say, if there's a big main net launch or a big announcement, just make sure we align it. So before it kind of goes out on like socials or their channel, official channels will make sure that we give journalists first, know, insight, even maybe exclusivity. So basically we make sure, like we just work with marketing managers to ensure that like the marketing campaign doesn't tamper our uh organic journalistic PR efforts. I see. So maybe let's start there, like the PR process. And so again, if you're speaking, if there's projects that are listening and they've never worked with YAP or a PR agency, help them to understand what it's like to work with a PR agency and what's in it for them. Yeah. So with it, so you should see an agency as an extension of, so you should see a PR agency as an extension of your comms team. Now, you know, with, with projects that might already have a marketing manager or comms manager, great. But that person is going to focus more on the actual like messaging and content of your company, but they're not going to be. uh I mean, they may be very savvy and very resourceful, but like, they're not going to have like a master media list. And even if do, they're not going to have time to go and pitch and have conversations and talk to journalists externally. So it's like, we are like kind of the external communications arm um of the way we operate, right? We talk to and pitch to journalists daily. So we have a good grasp of an understanding of like, where reporter is, what event they're going to, what they're going to cover, what they're interested in. And so when a client is like trying to, you know, gear up or aim to launch a major story, we kind of know. who to go after and who to spend time with to ensure that it kind of goes out the day you launch, um if that makes sense. So basically we're like external journalist media relations, that's one part, but also we look externally because basically we work with several different clients. So we kind of have also a broader grasp of what's happening in the industry and we might actually seed like partnerships that our clients might not even see. uh I think we've like over the years, I can't point to an example, but we basically connected some clients with one another and they ended up doing a joint PR. So like they ended up having a good partnership just because of our connection. Right. So we are kind of like And it's a job. I I love what I do because I kind of get to learn and get an inside look on a broad range of projects. We have a DeFi lender to a zero-knowledge infrastructure marketplace. I get to learn about the different projects. It makes my team and crypto PR folks quite well-rounded PR. crypto experts actually. So it sounds like because of the relationships that you've built with these news outlets and uh media folks, you kind of know what their beat is or what they're focused on. And so you're able to tailor the story to meet their needs. And they pay attention to you and they work with you because you're actually solving one of their problems because they're looking for good stories. And then you provide those good stories to them and then hopefully the project will benefit. ah and just what they also looking for access to, you know, key founders, right? And like, that's why we also are very selective with who we work with, because like, we usually will see, okay, is a client that we work with, are they, like, pitchable? And like, are they, you know, someone that a client really wants to talk about? like, so also, like, we also, we also start working with projects that are kind of trending, like, again, uh I'm going to use the zero knowledge tech because I remember like two years ago, it's like ZK tech was all the craze. And so we actually had a lot of zero knowledge tech clients. We had like three to four at one time and it was like great. And then like the last year happened and like ZK days and ZK tech just kind of like tape it off and it's like, okay, what happened? And so it was like much harder to PR them. So really the trends like do come and go, also we like leverage the trends at the time that they like are hyped up. Yeah, no, that makes sense. I have worked with a number of zero-knowledge projects and you're exactly right. I the story first started out with around privacy and then scalability and then now everything can be proved through ZK. And it actually, for me right now, it feels like ZK might, it feels like the right time. Like there's actually, it's back again and it actually feels like it's really working. Yeah. It's quite exciting actually. Yeah, I interviewed a succinct, uh Uma at succinct and also Rika from Risk Zero. And I've interviewed probably six or seven different ZK projects in the last two months. And they're all approaching ZK from their own perspective and, you know, trying to solve really the same kind of problem, but from a different perspective. And it feels like maybe now's the right time. Anyway, that's just kind of a side since you brought up that ZK as a... as one of the trends over the last few years and it actually feels like maybe now is the time. um How do you manage expectations with projects? I imagine some of them will come to you and say, Sam, I've got this, we have this really great solution to a big problem, but no one knows about us. Like help us become famous, help us with awareness. and I want it done yesterday. Yep, we get that a lot too. Which is why we pick our clients, right? Like, the client that wants to get on Bloomberg TV in two weeks, we're like, no, not a chance. And we often actually don't work with them because we're like... It just seems so unrealistic. we always actually like before we even like say yes to working with a client. It's interesting. We're a services business. Like we are meant to serve the client, but we like we have to be selective too because it's our reputation on the line. So for the projects that are like, could we get on like sometimes projects go, can we get a Wall Street Journal and Financial Times? I'm like, why do want to get on there if they're gonna be negative and they're gonna write a negative piece because actually Walter General's been writing investigative pieces about crypto, uh you know, for the past few years. So it's like, do you want to be investigated? Like, why? So sometimes like some of their questions are a little bit off. uh And so yeah, we kind of have to like, yeah, humble some of them, whether they want to be or not. But like, we really explain why. they should aim for something and why they shouldn't. But we also share examples of how long it could take. um Really, PR is a relationship game. It's a long game. if a journalist doesn't really even know your brand or understand who you are, they're likely not going to write about you and your project in the next month. However, if you start showing up, they start seeing you. like consistently like show up at different events or like say more stories kind of pop up on their newsfeed about who you are in six months, then they might be interested in that, you know, know, exclusive interview or that like executive profile, but like you kind of also have to like, we always talk about like building your like digital like presence and footprint. and also building a steady drum beat of media coverage. The, you know, as you're thinking about projects to work with, um I imagine they're all all different stages. Some are ready to work with app. um I guess at what stage are projects like ready to work with the app versus maybe you're too early? Like how would you advise projects on that? so my recommendation is because you know, we also don't want to waste anyone's money and also wasting anyone's time. But like really, if you've got like we'd say just before a series A, like you have got a good amount of funding you can afford to spend on marketing and PR services. Like that's a good time before your series A then we like we work on your series A announcement. The other thing is also Now I recommend so we still work with a range of projects So some for some there are founders who are like I just needed a team right now for the next three months to help me And we do work with that But then eventually the founders always get too busy and like there's a lot going on for them So we really also recommend that I like to recommend that team should hire a marketing manager first It's better to hire a marketing manager that can own an agency relationship So yeah Series A and you have a marketing manager or like a cobs manager in-house that can manage it and get the most out of an agency. Because while we love talking to founders and it's my favorite part, um we know that founders have a million other things to worry about and they should not be worrying about like PR. uh We will do the best we can to like elevate and like organize interviews for them. And we just need their like brain maybe for 15 minutes a week. But other than that, like they need to have someone support them with all the other administrative stuff. That makes sense. Let's go to a couple of rapid fire questions if that's okay. uh Thinking in the last several years, what's a good example of public relations that you consider as like, that was stellar. And that was like an example for every PR agency and every project in the crypto space that can really look to as an example and benefit from. um Actually, it was recently the Bybit hack. That was really impressive. um Well, like they got hacked, I forgot the amount, like it was significant. um And then like right away there was a like immediate post acknowledging it like on their like ex but also on their founders ex account. Then they're like well and to build trust Because like obviously an exchange getting hacked like then you have this bank run of people like not like Pulling funds out and I think it obviously hurt them and pull their funds out But then like then you had the founder like ah Was like hey, I'm gonna do a live stream and it wasn't just like a x-spaces like audio it was like he jumped on and it was like him and a camera at him and it was very much like Yeah, so much pressure on him, I can imagine, but like he did a really good job, either, like obviously he's, he was great, but also I'm sure there was like a team behind the scenes helping him and propagating him. And he was actually taking questions. Yeah, Ben, yeah, Ben from Bybit, yeah. And like, I thought that was very impressive. I was like, wow, that was like the fastest turn. And also was like, only in crypto can that happen. Like, I'm sure that happened, maybe not only crypto, like. But this was like live and it was like, Hey, and he was like taking questions directly from. uh Yeah, I thought that was really impressive too. And which speaks to kind of like the, I don't know how famous or how well known Ben was prior to the hack. Probably not very well known, but post hack, he's like, you know, just he's built so much personal equity in his brand, personal brand that um now people like listen to him, right? And so, yeah. well. it's like, also need, so I've been pushing kind of like founder mode comp, like why there's a need for founders to still be like the front face or rather like have communications from their company because at the end of the day, an exchange getting hacked, what do people care about? Like, you know, can they trust this exchange again with their money? And so if you put like a figure and this person, like, you know, people like to trust people, people like to... look at people so it's like okay it's actually just that reassurance like wow there's a human being like behind all of this that's that's hope that's uh responsible and accountable and like telling and reassuring customers that he is going to do what he can to secure the funds or like save your money it really it's a very human thing we want people behind organizations let's break down the elements. So the hack happened. And then let's break down exactly the elements of the things that Ban and Bybit did that kind of turned this sentiment around. Like if you were to break it all down, what are those things? Well, it was like, uh, it was like the immediate kind of, uh, calm. So it was like, have acknowledged this happening. We're looking into it. it was the getting on the live stream and like, not just audio. Uh, it's literally camera shining at him. He's looking at the camera and it's actually addressing questions like live, um, and being available for questions. And I think that build trust because in a moment, like in the moment when Yeah, you see all these funds kind of leave and like people like some probably lost millions. Like you kind of want like to see someone be accountable. So I really think the main crux of it was like just putting a camera on the founder and going, look, we're going to be able to. I mean, I think Coinbase also, I mean, the recent I feel like Brian does a great job of going direct. You'll hear from Brian whenever there's anything major or serious to Coinbase. There was that recent hack or threat of a hack of data. You had the founder directly addressing the people who were trying to threaten Coinbase. It's kind of, end of the day, it's like... Having a human being actually builds trust because if they didn't like have that, like people were like, why should I trust? You know, going to the Brian Armstrong at Coinbase, the video he created, one thing I found really interesting is the angle of the camera. I don't know if that makes a difference from a PR perspective, but I noticed it right away. Like he's like he's almost higher than the camera and he's looking down. What do you think about that? Or is it, am I imagining things? I mean, I'm not like, analysed it that way, but you might be like, onto something. really, people do like, read... People read into everything, right? Like, so the way something's done, like the way that like, like it's... It wasn't actually framed, it wasn't like, polished, it was very much like, he literally had his iPhone and he was just talking to the camera. I think that's what, like, what came across to me. uh But that also comes across as like, that's quite raw, that's quite genuine and honest and again, builds trust. Because if it was polished, it was formal, like, I don't know, maybe people would read something else into it. I mean, either way, think he could have worked, but still, it's very much like, I'm going to react to this now. Cause it's, yeah, if you waited a while to like make sure he gets in front of a good camera. then at the end of the day, also would say like, uh, by a bit, uh, Ben on live stream was actually quite well framed and like, but it looked like he was like in their office and like a, know, on, on, on like audio visual. screen. So like the quality was really good. That's what I would try to say. Yeah, but it still had that, it was timely. was, yeah, and it was, and even though it was polished, it was still very, it just felt authentic. Yeah. like timely. think timeliness is the thing. It was like you could not have framed that. Yeah. Samantha Yap, thanks for taking the time to meet with us. You are a legend um and we have so much to learn from you and best of luck with everything you have going on this year and that's it. Thank you. Thank you so much, Peter. This was really enjoyable chat. Cheers. Thank